Interviews – Page 11

February 26, 2020February 18, 2020

Patricia Barbelli

My decision to pursue a career in law was driven mostly by the male role model I had when I was teenager: my father. He has always shown strong passion, commitment, and energy. He was also very dedicated to his legal career, having been an executive of a large bank and a Judge for some time. I was inspired by him to also follow a career in the legal industry.

I completed my undergraduate degree in law, my postgraduate degree in contract and tax law, and then completed an MBA. Unlike a lot of lawyers, who often begin their careers in private practice, I have always worked in in-house counsel roles. I began my career as a lawyer for PepsiCo before moving to Bayer, where I was promoted to the role of senior legal manager. After six years with the company, where I was also a member of the executive team (as corporate secretary to the CEO), I became a GC for the first time at Pirelli. I then moved to Whirlpool as their legal director of Latin America. I was at Whirlpool for almost four years when I was contacted by a head hunter to speak about an interesting opportunity at Diageo.

There are many reasons why I decided to move to Diageo. The main reasons, though, were its reputation (in having strong governance, values, and compliance); its solid and remarkable brands; its leadership in the spirits industry; and, finally, its bold diversity and inclusion agenda.

For me, the role of the legal department is so much more than simply a business partner – we are a business peer. The legal department must, fundamentally, help the business to do business. At the end of the day, in-house legal teams must consider themselves as a department that helps to sell and helps to deliver the company’s goals and strategies. We are not a support function for the business. Legal is a role that thinks not only for the consumers, but also for both the stakeholders and shareholders. It is important to challenge the often-held belief that the role of the legal department is to say no! We are there to ensure legal compliance, and to find solutions, always bearing in mind the consumer, stakeholder, and shareholder interests, and to help the business to grow.

This belief is very much reflected in how my team is structured and how our work is done. My team and I typically have very intense work days, which usually involve business meetings, discussions, projects, and deliverables that link to the company’s strategy. And, of course, we are responsible for all legal matters across the business. This involves various kinds of litigation, including tax, which is a complex area of law in Brazil. Our litigation work is not limited to liability but also includes asset litigation, contract litigation, environmental law, data privacy issues, real estate, mergers and acquisitions, antitrust, brand protection, and corporate security.

I believe it is very important to emphasise the different roles men and women may (and often do) play at home and work. It is even more important to establish limits when necessary in order to support the work-life balance, for both genders. This is where we must count on mentors or leaders within companies and organisations to support diversity and inclusion initiatives. Alongside this support though, it is just as important to lead by example.

Since the beginning of my career, I’ve personally faced many challenges as a woman. But I overcame these by being professional, resilient, and by showing my commitment and capabilities. I can recall many business meetings in my career where ‘manterrupting’ and ‘mansplaining’ were commonplace. I overcame this by being respectful, while also creating a space to put across my point of view. More importantly, I stood up for myself, and was not afraid to show my points of view and capabilities.

“The role of the legal department is so much more than simply a business partner – we are a business peer.”

Some years ago, I joined the executive team of a multinational company (a more traditional business) and I was the only woman to occupy an executive position. The other executives were much more senior than me and had been working for many years for this company. In the beginning, it was very difficult for me to gain their trust, their attention, and to be included in the most important discussions, to really ‘sit at the table’. I faced challenges to build the relationships and get closer to them, but I am glad to say that they have turned into very nice colleagues… and one of them is currently my mentor!

In my opinion, the largest barrier facing women in the legal industry – and particularly in the in-house profession – is not getting women in, but the promotion of women to the top levels . This is because many companies are only starting to discuss diversity as an important issue. Unfortunately, from a practical point of view, this means that women tend only to occupy some levels in the hierarchy of organisations, and often only up to managerial level. While this is true to some extent in the corporate arena, it is especially prevalent in law firms. Senior leadership positions in companies and most partner positions in law firms are still occupied by men. Often this is because a lot of women give up their careers when they have children. This is not due to their skills, capabilities, or desire to return to work. This is, more often than not, due to the lack of flexibility from companies and law firms in helping women to continue to grow their career while also being a mother.

I certainly faced challenges when I had my daughter. Although I was lucky in that I found several supportive executives (both male and female), I was surprised at the low level of support I received from some female executives (some of whom were already mothers). It can be very tough without the right support. Taking lessons from my own experiences as a working mother I am, as much as possible, very supportive of my colleagues, my team, and other women who are pregnant or returning to work from maternity leave. I strongly believe that, as women, we must support each other because we all face similar challenges in life (in work and at home), and have the same aspirations and ambitions as men do.

With that in mind, and alongside my role leading the legal team, I also sponsor Diageo’s Diversity and Inclusion Committee. This was created in order to address matters concerning women’s participation in the workplace, people with disabilities, race, sexual orientation, and gender identity, and support them with initiatives to promote diversity and inclusion. I am also a board member of WILL (Women in Leadership Latin America), an international organisation with chapters in São Paulo and New York and an advisory board in London. The aim of the organisation is to share best practice, aimed at closing the gender pay gap, promoting women in leadership roles, and helping organisations to establish career development programmes for women.

As a company, Diageo is very open and transparent in having conversations regarding female advancement in the legal profession. Gender equality remains a major issue in most organisations and there is still a gender gap in the vast majority of companies in Brazil. Despite the relatively slow progress in Brazil, Diageo has an impressive track record in advancing women (without having laws in place) and being a benchmark for companies in Latin America. For example, females in senior leadership positions has increased from 22% to 50% in the last two years.

If I could give one piece of advice to myself at the start of my own career, it would be to have a mentor and to make connections with a diverse range of women. It would also be to share my own experiences more, learn with other women, and count on their support. Mentorship is very important for young aspiring female leaders. Having a mentor may help the young woman to share their own experiences while learning from others’ experiences and counting on their own mentor’s support during their career.

I am fortunate in that I have had the pleasure of working with many admirable women in my teams throughout my career. Some women who joined my team in junior roles have progressed to being mothers in senior roles. I also have mentorship sessions with women who are new, or may not be on my team, to help them with their respective careers. I always try my best to teach, discuss, and give feedback to my mentees. I try to motivate them to keep focussing on both their career paths and own life aspirations, despite any challenges that they may encounter.

February 26, 2020February 18, 2020

Zelma Acosta-Rubio

I would like to say that my move from private practice to an in-house role was a carefully thought out decision; but, as with most things in life, it was simply an opportunity that presented itself at the right time and where all the conditions were there for me to step in and thrive. The decision was not so much to go in-house – it was more about the challenge to build a modern, innovative legal team profile in a Peruvian bank that was already at the forefront of redefining banking services in Peru.

When it was privatised in 1994, Interbank’s revised value proposition focused on convenience, speed, and service. It was the first bank to establish financial stores operating seven days a week (9am–9pm) at supermarkets. It built a large distribution network, owned the largest out-of-branch ATM network, and redesigned its financial stores with a human-centric approach. By 2010, data mining and scoring had evolved, and the bank moved from product offerings to customised financial services solutions based on deep knowledge of clients’ needs. The challenge for the legal team was to modernise the way legal services were delivered. Speed was key.

When I joined Interbank in 2007, we renewed about 40% of the legal team and set ourselves a vision: ‘to unlock value for corporate strategy’. In terms of speed, that meant working closely with cross-functional teams from the outset in order to design timely solutions with strategic value. Thus, all our lawyers were required to develop business, strategic, and financial acumen to ensure the legal function’s strategic alignment with the rest of the organisation; and to understand Interbank’s strategic intent and be able to articulate our internal clients’ business plans and KPIs. We launched (and continue to run) meet-ups and workshops to instil these new skills and develop a strategic mindset across the entire team. For me it is imperative that, as an in-house team, you have a deep understanding of your company’s strategic intent, and make strategic decisions when dealing with legal risks. You are not just acting in an advisory capacity; you need to own your recommendations and decisions and understand the value proposition as if you were responsible for the P&L.

When I started my first job in New York, I was hired as a foreign associate and had a front row seat learning about power dynamics in private practice. I worked in the financial services practice – an area that was 100% dominated by men, and where women struggled with late nights and family commitments. By the time I got to London a year later, I had made the decision to focus on work, and maybe – just maybe – have a family later. While London was a bit more cosmopolitan, and a bit more inclusive, the hours were still very long and it was still highly competitive. I made a conscious choice to get ahead by playing on my strengths: my knowledge of civil and common law, my pitching skills, and Latin America’s privatisation wave. I was 28 years old and originating deals in Latam, which was unusual for a young associate.

When I moved in-house to Interbank, it was a very different experience, not only because it was a move to an in-house role, but because it was in Peru. However, there was one factor that remained the same, and that was the nicely packed set of stereotypes and unconscious bias in the workplace that help to perpetuate and hold together the dynamics of power. What I observed was a strong underlying assumption of ‘women take care’ vs ‘men take charge’ as a shared belief by men and women alike. This was not only in Interbank, but across the corporate sector in general. And it applies equally to private practice. This, I believe, is the biggest barrier to true gender equality.

“As our research progressed, we realised that it was strategically important for us to accelerate diversity and inclusion.”

In private practice, I think the focus on hourly billing is particularly troublesome; the lack of flexible working arrangements and the penalties women endure for taking maternity leave set them back on their path to attaining partnership. Working in-house is not necessarily better. Stereotypes and unconscious bias are still present; however, what we do see is more and more corporates taking decisive action towards diversity and inclusion, which of course benefits the entire organisation. At Interbank, for example, we share with our panel law firms our diversity and inclusion initiatives, and will be asking them for their data, policies, and accountability for diversity and inclusion in the teams we work with. We also push our firms to give us more women as contacts, especially because firm relationship management has typically been a space reserved for male senior partners.

Alongside my role as GC, I also hold the position of board secretary. I realised I wanted to learn more about diversity in the boardroom. And so I asked for Interbank’s data. In 2012, overall female representation at Interbank was 58%, with 44% C-suite female executives. On the surface this looked to be a good balance. But when we delved more deeply into the data, we learned that female representation reduced to 38% (supervisor), 34% (deputy manager), and 11% (manager). This showed us that we had a significant pipeline issue. It was at this point that I ‘dug my heels in’ and decided to figure out the why, the how, and the what of diversity and inclusion for Grupo Intercorp. We started by asking the following question to large groups of women in several of our Group companies: what are the main reasons that prevent women’s development and keeps them from attaining higher positions? Is it a matter of skill sets, lifestyle, or confidence?

We then asked the following, more in-depth questions:

Skill sets

Do women have different skill sets than men?
If so, are these differences a key element that will advance a man’s career to the detriment of a woman’s?

Lifestyle

For you, what is a normal day?
Does being married or single make a difference? Why?
Is being a mum an obstacle to career advancement? Why?

Confidence

Are men more confident?
Is lack of confidence a barrier for women’s career advancement?

As our research progressed, we realised that it was strategically important for us to accelerate diversity and inclusion, and to build on the collective learnings across Grupo Intercorp. In December 2018, the role of chief diversity and inclusion officer was created, as was a Diversity Board, and we have made significant progress since then.

All Group company boards now have approved D&I policies and guidelines and accompanying action plans. We determined to set internal targets by the end of 2019. The policies recognise diversity as a value and inclusion as a leadership trait. The guidelines for 2019 were, first, to prioritise three tracks: (i) attraction, selection, retention, and advancement of women in the organisation, (ii) work-life balance, and (iii) zero tolerance of sexual harassment; and, second, to educate on and build awareness of stereotypes and unconscious bias. All our Group companies prioritise the same three tracks, though some may decide to take on additional ones depending on their own demographics. We also continue to participate in Ranking Par, Latin America’s first-ever gender equality ranking.

We hire for competence and hold interviews with structured and diverse panels. I am also a full supporter of female-led law firms. In the past two years, I have retained (+3) and recommended female lawyers who have set up their own individual legal boutiques. These are women who left the larger firms because they wanted to own their time and deliver results.

Internally, I make sure women get stretch assignments and I expose them to senior leaders across the organisation. I lead by example by engaging in the conversation, making a point of bringing people’s views forward, and being explicit about being equal in our differences.

My commitment to promoting gender equality in the legal industry extends beyond my roles at Grupo Intercorp and Interbank. In 2016, together with ten other lawyers, I formed Women in the Legal Profession (WIP) Peru, an initiative borne from the Cyrus R. Vance Center for International Justice for the empowerment of women in the legal profession. At WIP-Peru, we focus on five tracks:

“The advice I would give to any woman wanting to get ahead in the legal industry is this: play to your strengths. Understand complexity. Always negotiate your salary. ”

Design and divulge guidelines for the selection, promotion, and retention of female lawyers;
Develop leadership skills for female lawyers (workshops);
Actively commit to have female lawyer representation at public events;
Run mentoring programmes;
Measure best practices and progress.

As part of WIP-Peru, and as GC of Interbank, I promote direct conversations with law firms around diversity and inclusion matters. I encourage them to adopt guidelines for the selection, promotion, and retention of female lawyers and design D&I action plans. Of course, the question of quotas versus targets often comes up. For me, it’s about looking at the demographics, setting realistic targets for diversity, and managing expectations. Personally, I believe 40% is a nice target to start with. In some cases, though – and depending on the toxicity of the culture or the need for change – a hard quota should be placed to accelerate the inclusion of women. I want to stress, though, that in all cases you must make sure you have the best talent ‘auditioning’ for the part, whether or not there are quotas or targets in place.

Finally, the advice I would give to any woman wanting to get ahead in the legal industry is this: Play to your strengths. Understand complexity. Always negotiate your salary.

February 26, 2020February 18, 2020

Mariana Olivares

I decided to become a lawyer when I was in high school. I am the very first lawyer in my family, so I cannot say it came from a sense of family tradition. However, my parents instilled in me from a young age the importance of justice and values, to do the right thing, and to always be ethical, no matter the consequences. From my very first class at law school, I was incredibly passionate about it; I knew I was in the right place.

Like many lawyers, I started my career in private practice, and had not really planned to move from private practice to an in-house role. But when the opportunity with Sodexo came about, it was too good to turn down. I remember that when I first started, I felt very strange! I was used to managing many different corporate legal accounts, and not ‘only one’. But I soon realised that, in fact, an in-house legal department also has many different clients – all the company’s other departments!

I believe that as an in-house lawyer it is very important to be involved with the strategy, the company’s business: you cannot be unaware of the core business units and interlinked functions. The legal department’s decisions affect the entire company: our shareholders, providers, employees, and community. Our mission is to provide high quality services – with high ethical standards – in order to contribute to the accomplishment of the corporate mission and the company’s objectives as well.

If we compare women’s progress in the legal industry, we can see that the situation is the same in different countries. In the majority of cases, the positions of equity partner and managing partner are held by men. Is this a coincidence? Absolutely not.

Put simply, the ‘rules’ have been made by men: that is the reason why most of the top positions are occupied by them. I strongly believe that had those rules been established by women (or, at the very least, in consultation with women), the reality would be different.

For me, it is very important that men and women work together in order to achieve gender equality in organisations. But how can this be done? First, review your hiring and promotion process; second, train your lawyers regarding unconscious bias and stereotypes in the legal profession; third, empower your women lawyers; and, finally, always review whether the conditions for men and women are both equitable and equal. This last one is very important because, while the aim of equality is to promote fairness, it really only works when everyone is starting from the same place (equity).

In the case of in-house lawyers, you do see more women in leading positions (e.g. legal director, general counsel) than you do in private practice, however there is still much to be done before there is true gender equality and representation. The individual challenges might be different, but, in essence, we are all supporting the same cause. We are all working to obtain equitable conditions for women in the workplace. We have to ensure that not all the leadership positions are for men. And we must always remember that, just because we do not see women in those positions that there are not talented women lawyers. It means the system is broken, and needs to be fixed. We have to empower women and make visible our capabilities. We must take action.

In my career, I have faced the challenges that most women have – not only because I am a woman, but also because I am a mother of two wonderful children. I got through those challenges with work, work, and more work.

“I feel a responsibility as a woman to help other women reach their full potential and progress in their careers.”

I am also lucky because my husband and my family have always supported my decisions and my career. In addition, my company and my colleagues really do believe that businesses with gender-balanced teams do better, not only for company results, but because it is the right thing to do.

Working in a global company such as Sodexo has given me several opportunities to grow and develop my career in many areas, not just in legal. For example, a few years ago I joined Sodexo’s leadership programme for women, based on development opportunities for women in senior management positions. Then I passed to the second stage of the programme: mentoring sessions.

I am also now responsible for the D&I strategy in my country. Along with other members of our D&I local committee, I work every day to reach gender balance in our company. In August 2019, we launched Sodexo’s ‘So Together Peru’, an internal network that seeks to promote the development and empowerment of women in open spaces, in which women and men participate equally to build a true culture of gender equality.

Sodexo also encourages us to volunteer with a worldwide programme (Stop Hunger) to fight hunger and malnutrition. I am the leader of this programme in Peru, and we work for a hunger-free world in three fields of intervention: support to local communities in need, women empowerment, and emergency assistance. We are convinced that providing women with better education, training, means of production, and financial resources will maximise the possibility of eradicating hunger from the world by 2030. Our commitment with Peru’s gender balance is also as a corporate citizen and this year, I was proud to receive recognition of our work from CONFIEP (The National Confederation of Private Business Institutions). This recognition motivates me to continue working on gender equity.

Beside my role at Sodexo, I am member of WIP Peru (Women in the Profession), an initiative from the Cyrus Vance Center for International Justice. I am part of the leadership committee, and this year I am a mentor in the mentoring programme. This initiative is only for women lawyers. I feel a responsibility as a woman to help other women reach their full potential and progress in their careers , but I also encourage other women in leadership positions to be role models for others.

Sodexo is strongly committed to advancing gender equality. As a world leader in quality of life services, the company fosters an open, inclusive culture where everyone can thrive. The global gender balance strategy is a key driver in ensuring that both men and women have equal access to growth and opportunities in our workplace.

Sodexo’s research shows that gender-balanced teams perform better, and so we are working globally to have women represent at least 40% of our total leadership by 2025. This goal will not be met overnight, so the company has established a specific gender strategy to help to achieve this.

Not only do we have cross-border initiatives, but we also develop many local initiatives. Last year we published an inclusive language manual that we now use in all our communications. We trained our senior management regarding unconscious bias and stereotypes and promote campaigns about gender balance. We also participate in panels, forums, and committees with other companies, and last year Sodexo Peru was considered first in the Aequales Ranking as the company with best practices promoting gender equality (category more than 1,000 employees).

Of course, multinational companies such as Sodexo that have strong D&I initiatives positively influence other companies and they set a good example. However, local leadership is very important to implement D&I initiatives and adapt them to a country’s culture. In our case, the issue of gender equity is balanced against things such as violence against women, which in our country reaches high percentages. So, while the global initiative is fundamental, local leadership is necessary to develop a D&I strategy that is aligned with the country reality.

With every day that passes, I am more convinced that we need quotas to achieve gender equality. Working to a ‘best efforts’ rule is not enough: we need quotas in order to achieve our goals. Once we have equity in leading positions, we can change our mindset, trust in a meritocratic system, and talk about equality between men and women without the need for quotas. In the legal function at Sodexo, we have a diverse team, but we are now working on developing capacities, nurturing talent, and empowering women so we can grow under the same opportunities.

It is important to always follow words with actions. While there are specific challenges faced by women in the legal industry, unfortunately gender imbalance is a global issue and one that needs to change. If I could give any advice to those women who are just starting out on their career path, it would be this: What you see as your weaknesses are your greatest strengths. It is what it makes you unique. Your youth is an opportunity to see the world with a fresh new eye. Never give up, fight for your ideas, and for what you really care about. Be ethical. This is the best gift you can give.

February 26, 2020March 5, 2020

Maria-Leticia Ossa Daza

GC: Can you tell us a little about your pathway into law. What made you want to be a lawyer?

I knew I wanted to be a lawyer when I was about 12 years old. My parents are both lawyers and their passion for the profession and what they do was a big inspiration. My mother has been a strong role model to me – a hard-working, smart, and successful lawyer with a beautiful family. I knew I wanted to help others through the law and I spent time reading the Colombian Constitution and Civil Code to understand the rights we had. The Colombian Constitution went through an important reform in 1991 granting many social and economic rights to Colombians such as the fundamental right to education and health. During the summers, I worked with my father on matters that involved the defence of some of those rights. At home, we learned that privileges carry huge responsibilities to society.

GC: What do you believe are the biggest barriers to women progressing in the legal industry?

Despite efforts in the industry as a whole, I would say gender bias is still generating significant disparities for women. Women continue to face barriers in hiring, assignments, promotions, and compensation. Reports on this matter still show that women and people of colour may feel they are held to a higher standard than men.

In addition to bias and machismo in the profession and in particular in Latin America, the barriers women place on themselves adds to the challenge. For example – the guilt we feel if we want to be successful and also have a family life; the struggle in fighting bias and finding work/life balance; understanding that it is ok to be driven and successful; and the desire to make partner and yes, have a life outside work.

Surprisingly, I have come across women in law who believe that taking parental leave will negatively impact their career, even though this is changing across the profession. For example, Willkie recently promoted a female associate to partner while she was on maternity leave, which I think sends an important message to our associates and to the industry.

GC: When you speak with women in-house lawyers, do you sense they face the same challenges as women in private practice?

Yes – numbers still show that women lawyers are far outnumbered by men in the highest-ranking and highest-paying positions, both in-house and in law firms.

According to the latest report from the American Bar Association’s Commission on Women in the Profession, only 35% of active US lawyers in 2016 were women, and they earned less than their male colleagues. Of the top lawyers for Fortune 500 companies, just 26% were women.

GC: How does the industry collectively need to change to break those barriers?

I think it will take time because it is a cultural change, a reset. We have to start with our children. Women also need to be more transparent about their personal experiences, and make more of an effort to mentor, sponsor, and guide other women. The industry and its women leaders also need to keep demanding change.

GC: What do you feel is the single biggest change that needs to happen?

We have to believe that gender equality and diversity is not only good for women, but good for business too.

GC: What challenges have you specifically faced in your career, and how did you overcome them?

I have been very fortunate to work at Willkie since I started my career, in an environment in which I had and continue to have full support and encouragement from our leaders and partners. I am grateful for the full support from the firm to lead our Latin American Practice Group, and to excel as an attorney.

For women practicing corporate law in Latin America as well as in other regions, there may be bias that women will not be ‘tough enough’ (and if they are assertive, they could be seen as too aggressive) or not fully committed, and if they have a family, that can be interpreted as an impediment.

Overcoming these challenges takes time. For me, I had to show I was hard-working, committed, and that I could handle the pressure and pace of transactional work. The M&A world is tough, but I love challenges. I’d like to see more women lawyers, bankers, CEOs, CFOs, and dealmakers in the M&A and private equity fields.

GC: How do you help to promote diversity, and do you feel a responsibility as a woman in a leadership position to help other women reach their full potential and progress in their careers?

I feel fully responsible to support and mentor other women: in my day-to-day work with our associates, through our foreign associate program, and outside Willkie through some of the non-profit organisations I support.

In my discussions with other women, I try to be open and share my honest experience, both the challenges and the successes. I regularly speak about diversity at conferences organised by law firms in Latin America, companies, and organisations such as the International Bar Association and The Legal 500.

I believe I have a responsibility to generate and be part of the initiatives and efforts on diversity. This is why I believe this Women in Law project with The Legal 500 is a great forum to share experiences, and to recognise some of the in-house lawyers who are working hard to transform the industry in the Latin American region.

Most importantly, I try to be a good role model and mentor for my daughter Valentina, to prepare her for leadership roles. I want her to be proud of having a mother who works and wants to be successful. I have learned not to feel guilty about my career and also to try to be fully present as much as possible for Valentina.

GC: How do you go about building a diverse team and leading by example?

As a woman of colour practicing corporate law, I hope that shows other women that if I can do it, they can too. We have a very talented and diverse team of women and men who respect and value each other’s opinions, each contributing a unique perspective.

GC: There is quite a divide between those who believe in quotas to address gender imbalance, and those who don’t. Do you have any specific thoughts on that?

While I respect and see the value of those who use them, I personally do not believe in quotas. But I do think we have to support talented men and women, and also give women the same opportunities to succeed as men. Associates work really hard to make partner and once they do, the merit is not in their gender or colour.

GC: Are there particular challenges that women face in the legal industry, as opposed to other industries, or is gender imbalance a more widespread cultural issue?

In my opinion, gender imbalance is just a more widespread cultural issue.

GC: If you could give advice to yourself at the start of your career, what would it be?

Be yourself. See the things (including your gender and colour) that make you different as advantages and not as obstacles, and use them to overcome the challenges you face. Find mentors, sponsors, and supporters with diverse perspectives and experiences from yours. They will help you view things differently, challenge you to improve, and ultimately help you to succeed.

February 26, 2020February 18, 2020

Mónica Jiménez González

When I immigrated to Canada 18 years ago, my South American university degree was of no value to the Canadian market – the firms in Canada wanted Canadian experience. Thankfully, I managed to get into a small boutique firm and from there a bigger firm. When I entered Fasken Martineau DuMoulin LLP, everyone had graduated from the University of Vancouver – and most of them were men. There weren’t many women lawyers in general, but even more scarce were female lawyers from the international jurisdiction. At that time, I was quite ‘exotic.’ Not only was I an immigrant, I was a woman, and not being the same as everyone was a challenge. I started at Fasken as an associate who spoke two languages and who also had two master’s degrees. Despite my high level of education, the first thing I encountered was people telling me ‘oh good, you speak two languages – so you’re the translator’. And I accepted this, thinking that it wasn’t too bad as an immigrant, as a woman, and as someone who didn’t have the same social exposure as my colleagues. I had to prove myself twice as much.

I gravitated towards corporate law because I liked trying to figure out how to make a difference with respect to how society is impacted by corporations. I’ve also had a keen interest in international human rights law since I graduated, and in my current role at Ecopetrol, I’m lucky that both of those aspects of law combine. I’m leading initiatives related not only to corporate governance but also to corporate communications and corporate responsibility. The latter looks at the standards to which the company complies and this includes going the extra mile – it’s more than revenue, it’s about being a good corporate citizen. In that area, we also look at a lot of human rights matters.

The role I have relates to both consumers and stakeholders of the company. This is where the idea of corporate responsibility comes in; we need to look at the standards that must be applied. Ecopetrol, with its 22 affiliate companies, is trying very hard to modernise, especially in relation to the politics of gender diversity and inclusion. Our goal is to find a common denominator within all our companies with respect to diversity and empowering different groups, including women. We’re partly a state-owned enterprise and this is a great thing because the government that’s in office right now is very strongly orientated to gender diversity. You can see this in the government’s cabinet, its politics, its vice president, and its first lady. So, not only do we, as a company, follow and implement what our government is doing, it also allows us a head start with diversity-based initiatives that we decide to implement at a corporate level.

We have two different levels in our company: operational and corporate. The operational level includes women who are working in the oil fields, the corporate level includes the actual recruitment process, but both levels empower women. I travelled to an oil field where I came to witness two very interesting examples of how we were hiring women. The first was an initiative where we are building a solar plant: there are many communities that are looking for jobs because right now there’s a blockage and our economy is suffering. So, Ecopetrol directly responded by hiring a group of women, some of whom had never had a job before, to work on this solar plant. We found that when we looked at the population of women working there, many of them were heads of their families – the breadwinners – despite never having had a job before. What we’re trying to do is find ways to provide jobs for those women while acknowledging that this is not common in a country where men are usually the breadwinners. We’re trying to find ways to educate these women and provide them with technical skills so that they can work on additional projects.

“Rather than do things intuitively and assume that we are doing a really good job, we look at the statistics.”

I discovered the second example when I began to talk to with some of the other managers in that region: the area where they were hiring women the most was in security personnel. My first thought was that if you were going to hire women in the middle of the night for security, they might not be as strong as their male counterparts if, for example, someone was to steal something. Actually, it’s been going very well. These women feel empowered, and are extremely vigilant. Despite historically being in a very male-domiated industry, we’ve found our women excel at these traditionally masculine roles. It’s a matter of being open-minded about business operations.

At a corporate level, there are six diversity initiatives that are being built and implemented right now, and for all of them we use both a top-down and bottom-up approach. The current board of directors is very keen and sensitive towards these initiatives and it understands that you get much more value with a diverse workforce. This can be seen in our recruitment process. Potential future employees are told why diversity and inclusion is important, why there is value in looking at everyone’s CVs, and the importance of not having unconscious bias towards women. One of our aims is to educate and eradicate this bias. For all our recruitment processes we require that for every three candidates, one of them must be a woman. Obviously, you cannot hire a woman just because of her gender – you have to make sure that she has the skills, merit, and will. However, it is about giving women that initial opportunity.

There’s a specific initiative at Ecopetrol that addresses how to prevent gender-based violence. This becomes really important when you get women in at an operational level and you have that traditional male role destroyed. One of the first practical steps we took was to build another bathroom and lockers for the women. Most of the operations only had male bathrooms and no places to change your clothes because women had never worked there. But now you’ll find not only bathrooms but lockers and changing rooms for both men and women. This is a huge thing, because no matter how many laws you put in place, if you don’t have the right operational set up for women, it’s never going to be realistically implemented.

Ecopetrol is taking action to address the gender pay gap. Rather than do things intuitively and assume that we are doing a really good job, we look at the statistics. We have looked at women at different regional, operational, and corporate levels in relation to their job description. We looked at how we valued each job description and then came to a conclusion on how much each particular job should be paid in comparison with another. We then matched the salary directly to the job description, without regard to gender.

We also have general regulation that includes ideas stemming from #MeToo. We have a Code of Ethics that everyone abides by, from the board of directors down to every single worker. Where there is inappropriate behaviour, including sexual harassment, Ecopetrol has many ways of addressing that. You can file an anonymous complaint which will be investigated until we find a resolution. We have special areas where you can speak about such matters without having to file a complaint, if you’re uncomfortable with that. We tell everyone that nothing is too small to merit a conversation. We have an ethics line, for women and men, where you can talk in confidence.

There has been a lot of action taken by the government itself. A lot of women in leadership positions have been given the same power as men and have made a very strong stance. However, I think that the most valuable way to change these traditional gender roles is to empower women: women must change their mind set with respect to who they think are, what they can actually do, and what they can truly ask for. I was at a public speaking engagement about international arbitration, and there were a lot of women in attendance. Having worked in this for the last 18 years, I have come to know that one of the myths surrounding it is that to get into international arbitration, you must be part of a very small club-like network. One of the women asked me how I managed to get into the ‘club of international arbitration’ as a woman? I turned the question on her and asked how many of the women had written an article on international arbitration or anything related to it in the last three years. Not one woman raised her hand. I then asked how many women had actually tried to apply or gotten into the international arbitration chamber of commerce; again, no hands were raised.

What I told them was that we know that being a woman is sometimes difficult and we need to work our way through with more effort than men. But, if we are not strong enough, do not take chances, and don’t do things for ourselves then we cannot expect things to change. That’s step one. Step two is sponsorship. There are excellent mentors out there, and you need other women to champion you so that you can be brave and take these chances. You need to apply to that job, write that article, speak publicly – and not be apprehensive about it. If you don’t do this, it is going to be difficult to move ahead.

“For me, the first key to success is finding the right partner who will support you.”

I have a great female mentor in Canada who told me it was never going to be easy and that there was always going be an imbalance, but as a woman you need to make that a safe and healthy imbalance. Sometimes you might have to travel and miss time with your family, but you can make that up next week. That teaches you to get rid of guilt. That’s another problem that women face – we feel guilty about everything we do! Once a month, I have informal dinners with executives and professional women in the Colombian industry. We have so many different conversations: you’ll find out if someone is looking for another job, or if someone is asking about the strategy on topic X. It’s a very informal network where anything can happen. You don’t realise that women are going through exactly the same issues as you if you don’t talk to each other, and that’s very common. Many of us have the same issues; we just forget to talk to each other. It’s also very refreshing when you find men who understand these issues and why they matter. I had a male mentor in Canada, when things were a lot more difficult for me because I was younger. I’ve never met anyone who was so generous and who took the time to be brutally honest with me. They’re out there; you just have to ask!

I am a lawyer and I am also an ambitious woman. But before having children, I was afraid of having them. This wasn’t because I was unclear of what I wanted, but because of the bias I knew I would face from people. For me, the first key to success is finding the right partner who will support you. If you don’t have a partner who supports you, it doesn’t matter how many mentors you have, or how many other women want to help you. It all starts at home. If it wasn’t for my husband, I would not have been able to work in such a demanding and fast- paced law firm or take on a leadership role at Ecopetrol.

When it comes to women with families or women about to have children, in Colombia we have 18 legal weeks of maternity leave. This is incredibly insufficient. And the expense of giving birth in Latin America is very high when compared to other nations. Companies need to find ways to provide better benefits to women when they’re on maternity or raising a child without making it too expensive. At Ecopetrol, we have looked very closely at our maternity policy. While it is currently extended to a little longer than 18 weeks, we are looking to see how this can be extended further, because it will benefit women greatly. In Colombian cities, breastfeeding has almost disappeared because it is very tough to breastfeed when you’re working. We have maternity spaces in our buildings and regions for our female employees to breastfeed, but there’s still such a long way to go. What is important is that we lead as a company and we are modernising: we want to do this. I am very proud to work for a company that takes women’s issues so seriously.

February 26, 2020February 18, 2020

Fatima Picoto

Curiosity has always been a part of who I am. As a child, I was curious about everything, and because of that curiosity, I questioned pretty much everything. Being Portuguese, but living in an African colony, my sense of equality and justice was developed early on. I found myself instantly respecting the need for diversity. Having resided in various different continents, this led to me to having dreams of being a diplomat, but instead I decided to pursue a career in law. Given my love of reading and my genuine interest in people and business, corporate law came naturally to me. I really enjoy work concerning business strategy, and this became very clear to me when I was studying economics and law. This interest was furthered while I completed my masters in tax. By joining the law, business and tax together, I discovered my passion. I then started my career as a tax lawyer at GlaxoSmithKline (GSK).

At GSK, I had the curiosity and passion to learn. With this, in addition to wanting to understand the business, and having people who trusted and supported me, I was eventually promoted to the position of assistant general counsel and legal director of GSK in Brazil. The reason I wanted to work at GSK was because of its reputation as an ethical company. It has clear values that match with my own personal views. It is a multinational company that gives back to society, while also allowing me to interact with many different cultures. GSK, as a company, has provided me with many opportunities to grow and develop.

The legal function at GSK has many different responsibilities, and there is no such thing as a ‘typical day’. In some cases, the legal function is the decision maker and in other cases, it is an advisor. But no matter what responsibility, we are always working closely with the business itself, to clearly define the framework we can navigate within. Legal has several interfaces: some are strictly legal to legal and others are more governance-led, where we design strategy implementation in a sustainable way. It is great to see legal acting as an actual stakeholder in the decision-making process, and certainly today we are finding that an in-house lawyer must also be a respected business partner.

I began to face challenges at the start of my career as a tax lawyer; at the time, it was a very male-dominated profession. I also rather interestingly found that there were barriers for young women without children. After applying for one particular role, I was told I was the perfect candidate, but that they required an assurance that I would not fall pregnant within the next five years. My answer was: thank you for the opportunity, but you are not the right company for me. Many women are expected to adapt their behaviour to get ahead, especially in male-dominated industries such as legal. I do not subscribe to this expectation. Rather than adapting, I would prefer to say that I have found my balance, and that I have learned to navigate my way through. When I first moved in-house, I found that I needed to work more than my male peers and do more in order to create a network, avoid misperception, and get ahead. This should not be the case. And I absolutely believe that one of the main challenges for women pursuing leadership roles within in-house counsel teams (and also, I suspect, in private practice) is finding that balance between their personal and professional lives. This is something men are not expected to consider as strongly as women.

“GSK in Brazil, we have made huge strides to address gender imbalance. Currently, 51% of our total staff is women, and 49% of our leadership positions are also occupied by women. ”

That said, at GSK in Brazil, we have made huge strides to address gender imbalance. Currently, 51% of our total staff is women, and 49% of our leadership positions are also occupied by women. This is due in part to specific programmes we have that focus on accelerating the pace at which women are promoted. The development programmes focus on helping female leaders enhance their leadership presence, inspire others, and plan their careers. Gender equality isn’t just a social concern; it’s good for business too. By understanding that gender diverse teams are more profitable and innovative, organisations can become more successful.

Mentoring is so important for aspiring young female lawyers. This is a relationship based on trust and respect, but I believe it’s not just beneficial for women. At GSK, alongside traditional mentoring, we also undertake reverse mentoring, which helps to change our viewpoint and create more self-awareness. Sharing diverse experiences helps to put things in the right perspective. I believe it’s also incredibly important to have male champions who are vocally and actively supportive of women’s issues, although I prefer to call them ‘human’ issues. For me, the more people speaking out loud in support of women, the better. In my career, I have had many male champions: they listened to me and paid attention, and respected my opinion. But it is a two-way street. The most important thing is to open the space for equal treatment.

I work hard to promote diversity and inclusion, not just specifically for women. I truly believe that we must embrace diversity as much as possible. When we combine our knowledge, experiences, and styles together, the impact is incredible. GSK aims to create a working environment where all employees feel included, respected, and valued for the unique qualities they bring, and are empowered to contribute to their full potential. As a woman in the legal industry, I believe that it is important to be you, to be curious, and to learn as much as you can while trusting yourself.

February 26, 2020February 18, 2020

Sandra Monroy

I have over 20 years of legal experience, most of it in-house. I started my professional career working as a legal advisor in the notary service. In 2005, I became general counsel for Telebucaramanga, a subsidiary of the telecommunications company Telefónica. Following this, I spent a year practicing litigation in private practice as a senior associate at Baker McKenzie. In 2008, I moved in-house once again as the manager of Latin American corporate legal affairs for the Colombian oil and gas company Terpel (formerly known as Organización Terpel). During the past ten years, I spent two years at TV Azteca as their legal manager, and four years as a legal and compliance director at CenturyLink in charge of the Northern and Andean regions of Latin America. One of the highlights from my time at CenturyLink was working on a team for the deployment of the first submarine cable connecting Colombia with the Pacific Ocean. I then spent a year at Claro Colombia as director of institutional relations and social responsibility, where one of my biggest achievements came in the form of successfully negotiating roaming agreements for the deployment of 4G networks with Avantel, Telefónica and TIGO.

I am now the legal director for the Andean Region for Uber, and for Panama and the Caribbean for Uber Eats. The recruitment team at Uber contacted me in 2018 and I made the decision to move to Uber because I see its importance as one of the most disruptive companies in the world. Through the use of technology it has a huge impact on the communities in which it operates globally. At Uber I am responsible for litigation, commercial and corporate matters, regulatory issues, competition law, and consumer protection rights. I would never include the word ‘typical’ to describe a working day here. My role requires a constant balance between legal strategy and meeting the business’s goals, and minimising risk for Uber while providing the best legal advice. Every day here is full of challenges, so I have to think outside of the box a lot of the time. I have faced a number of compliance challenges, but my team and I work with the board of directors to manage these crises. The experience I have gained has prepared me to handle such challenges successfully, and I have learned how to make a 360-degree evaluation of complex situations in order to come up with ways to solve them.

One challenge modern companies such as Uber face head-on relates to diversity and inclusion. We are committed to providing a safe and healthy environment for everyone, which includes having policies in place to prevent any form of discrimination or harassment. Uber values the unique contributions of individuals with varying backgrounds and believes that diversity contributes to the success of its business. At Uber, all employees are given the opportunity to develop within diverse employee resource groups (ERGs) such as ‘Pride at Uber’, ‘Able at Uber’, ‘Parents at Uber’, ‘Interfaith at Uber’ and ‘Women of Uber’, among others. These groups promote the diverse nature of Uber’s workforce and improve work behaviours and attitudes every day. ‘Women of Uber’ is an internal group that seeks to find new opportunities, support, and sponsorship for women to ensure all women can speak openly and connect with external networks. It enables them be ‘a voice for women empowerment to change the culture from the inside out’.

“I am strongly committed to empowering the women on my legal team to take risks, to lead and to participate.”

Personally, I promote diversity and inclusion – particularly as it relates to women – by encouraging the women I work with to speak up, to value their own work, and to be confident in bringing their unique knowledge and opinions to the table. I am strongly committed to empowering the women on my legal team to take risks, to lead, to participate in external workshops, and to build their own self-brand. The #MeToo movement created awareness of a difficult reality many people were (and still are) facing in workplace environments. At the beginning of my career, I experienced harassment myself and can assure you that it is not only scary, but it also makes you feel very lonely. What truly amazes me about the #MeToo movement is the way in which it has encouraged women to speak up and support each other. It has certainly proved that ‘unity is a strength’ is more than just four words. The movement has definitely had a major impact on culture and determined a new era in which we women are no longer scared or threatened to speak up for ourselves in unfair situations.

Even though I believe quotas have played a part in creating gender equal workplaces, nowadays we can achieve this in other ways such as by using fair selection processes with clear terms, giving the same opportunities to men and women, and by ensuring we have selection processes that include similar numbers of male and female candidates – as well as male and female interviewers – in order to guarantee inclusive processes that result in fairly elected professionals.

There is an increased understanding of the importance of including women in higher positions and a greater appreciation of women in the professional field. We now see women as high-level partners at top law firms and developing successful careers in leading companies such as Uber. One of the perks in this digital era is having the ability to be connected, and this has an impact on diversity and inclusion. It makes it easier for companies such as Uber to have a global policy on diversity and inclusion that applies worldwide, allowing diversity initiatives to take place without limitations or the excuse of geographical differences.

February 26, 2020February 18, 2020

Brenda Puig and Carmen Roman

GC: Please tell us a little about your pathway into law. What made you move from private practice to in-house roles?

Brenda Puig (BP): I spent my first years as a lawyer in a law firm. It was a large and prestigious law firm in Buenos Aires. I worked long hours and I really loved my job. After some years working for this law firm, I got married and became a mother, and balancing my career with my personal life became a challenge. At that time, at least in Argentina, there was not much debate about these issues. Even though both the law firm and I made great efforts to make it work – I actually became the first part-time attorney – after my second son I felt the need to make a change.

I joined Walmart 14 years ago. I found in the corporate world – and especially Walmart – a much more favourable environment for my personal needs. I also found a completely new way of being a lawyer. The in-house world is so different from private practice, and I just love it. I have been very lucky to experience both sides of the profession, and have learnt a lot from both. I believe this combination has made me a better lawyer.

Carmen Roman (CR): Although I started my professional career in a law firm, what made me move to an in-house role was the opportunity to know about the corporate world, to understand its dynamics, its strategic role, its contribution to different stakeholders, and at the same time interact with different professionals in the same ecosystem. I feel that in the in-house role I have been able to maximise my abilities, improve my strategic thinking, and achieve a work-life balance.

GC: What do you believe are the biggest barriers to women progressing in the legal industry? Are the challenges similar across private practice and in-house, or have you seen differences?

BP: There are many different barriers, which I believe are common to so many other professions, not just the legal profession. Work-life balance is an issue for many women, and even more challenging for mothers of young children. Lack of adequate networking opportunities and visibility is another factor; men tend to have better opportunities for this. The fact that there is a much higher percentage of men in leadership positions plays a role as well – there are fewer women role models for emerging talent. In my personal experience, even though law firms have evolved over the past years, I would say that on average the in-house world is more advanced in designing strategies for solving the gap than law firms.

CR: Yes, I agree. Although we have seen some progress in law firms, I believe that there is more flexibility and career development in the in-house world. There are still large barriers for women in private practice. Even though we see the number of women lawyers growing in private practice, they don’t have equal access to senior positions. The working environment and the long office hours in most law firms are still more suitable to male lawyers compared to their female counterparts. The lack of work-life balance is one of the major obstacles that female (and male) lawyers face. A majority of law firms are reticent to innovate or change with the times, meaning in general that the legal profession lags behind other industries in terms of senior women reaching the top. Law firms should adopt different, realistic working options for parents and actively remote working or a flexible-hours system.

GC: What challenges have you specifically faced in your career, and how did you overcome them?

BP: I have faced many challenges over the years! If I were to find a common ingredient in how I overcame them, I would say that attitude is the key. Whatever challenge you face, having a positive mindset and self-confidence is essential. Believe in yourself and try to find what you can learn from each situation. Also, team-work. No single person on this planet knows everything: we need to rely on our teams, peers, partners, mentors, family and friends. Working collaboratively is a great virtuous circle – help whenever you can, and you will be helped whenever you need.

“Whatever challenge you face, having a positive mindset and self-confidence is essential.”

CR: I am the opposite in that I have never experienced an obstacle that was solely the result of being a woman. I have often been the only woman in the room and almost always the only woman at executive level, but I have never viewed that as an obstacle, because of my attitude. I think the biggest challenge in my career is maintaining a good work-life balance. Progressing in your career while having time for family, friends and hobbies is a constant struggle.

I have always expressed to my different bosses how important family is to me. I request certain benefits as non-tradable. For example, to be able to do school pick-up and drop-off with my children once or twice a week. I make sure this never interferes with my results, and it also has the effect of making my commitment to the company stronger.

GC: Walmart has a strong commitment to empowering women (working with women-owned businesses in its supply chain; the establishment of the Women’s Economic Empowerment Forum). What success have you seen with these initiatives? What metrics are used to measure their success?

BP: We are very much focused on developing our female talent internally and supporting women externally. We truly believe in the power of diversity and inclusion and we put a lot of work and effort into this. We have consistently been working on initiatives for the past ten years. The Global Women Leadership Council was first appointed in 2008 at our US-based headquarters and is an advisory council formed by female business leaders, reporting to our global CEO. This was replicated in each market and we work both locally and globally. I have been part of this council since it was first formed in Argentina in 2009, and I currently serve as its chair. The council is not only focused on the legal department but on the whole company. We have several lines of work and KPIs. I believe that seeing more women in leadership positions as well as in our talent base is the best indicator.

We do awareness activities with men and women: specific training targeted to specific needs of specific groups; mentoring; policies that assure equal representation in recruiting and development; and policies for enabling work-life balance. And we also have an active voice externally. We believe that being such a large company comes with a responsibility because we can inspire change in other companies. We share our best practices and encourage others to have the courage to give it a try. Companies must play their role in improving the work environment and therefore our society.

Our initiatives are both global and local. We have a global framework and there is a lot of market freedom within that framework. We do have company-wide goals and objectives, but challenges around how to tackle those goals and objectives might vary from market to market – the fact is that cultures and realities are different across the region. Each market needs to find the solutions that best fit their specific needs in order to make it locally relevant. And each market can also benefit from benchmarking with other Walmart markets. We like to call it ‘powered by Walmart’.

CR: Yes, that’s right. At Walmart, we know that our people and culture help to make Walmart successful and that different perspectives lead to innovative solutions for our business. Developing inclusive leaders is the key to building a diverse and inclusive workforce. To develop inclusive leadership at Walmart, the executive team has inclusive leadership expectations as part of their annual performance evaluation, and this means (i) participate in at least one approved inclusive leadership education offering such as unconscious bias training, LGBTQ+ training, or sexual harassment awareness training, among others, and (ii) actively mentor two associates, host a mentoring circle, or participate as a mentor in a programme such as our Lean In Mentoring Circles.

In terms of gender, we are focused in developing female talent under the Global Women Leadership Council that Brenda mentioned. We also have a local Diversity and Inclusion Council in Chile; I’ve been a member since 2009 and I’m also currently its president. We are constantly measuring the female participation at leadership level and the programme effectiveness. In addition, I was also part of the International Diversity and Inclusion Council for two years.

Our recent statistics show that 57% of our 51,000 employees are women and 25% of our frontline positions are held by them. At Walmart, we believe that men and women should have the same opportunities, and we ensure internal wage equity with a compensation policy that does not discriminate with respect to gender. We have a range of programmes that promote the development of female leadership within the company:

Empowering: Development acceleration programme for women executives with high potential, helping them prepare for the challenges of executive positions in the company.
Women in Retail: Development of leaders for the retail of the future through training, networking, and empowerment.
Wired Chile: Development, empowerment, and promotion of female talent at Walmart Chile Real Estate through mentoring, conversation sessions, and workshops.
More Digital Women: Courses on web development and digital marketing, to contribute to women’s development and empowerment through digital training and employability.

We also have several support programmes for women outside Walmart, because our ethos is about making improvements not just for the women who work for us, but for the communities we serve as well. Some of those programmes include:

Women for Chile, developed with the support of ONG ‘Mujeres Empresarias’ (Women Entrepreneurs). Women for Chile seeks to strengthen women-led enterprises through personalised training, boards, and mentoring, with the possibility that some of the selected enterprises will become Walmart Chile suppliers.
Solidarity Spaces for women entrepreneurs. These are spaces located in our Leader and Leader Express locations throughout the country. This initiative is developed in partnership with the Ministry of Women and Gender Equity. The women entrepreneurs are given the opportunity to sell and publicise their products in different parts of the country.

GC: Do you think the growth of international companies expanding into Latin America is having a positive effect on LatAm domiciled companies and their D&I initiatives?

BP: Yes, absolutely. We live in a global world today – everybody and everything is connected. Local markets benefit from the influence of international companies that bring best practices. And, likewise, global companies benefit from the local wisdom and practices that can be taken to other geographies. That is the beauty of this synergy.

CR: Definitely. Multinational companies have had more time to develop their best practices, and that is having a positive influence on local markets. In addition, because they are willing to share these good practices with other companies, we are starting to see major cultural changes at the country level.

GC: In what ways do you work with your panel firms to improve representation of women in the legal industry?

BP: This is, again, just using our influence. We look favourably on firms that foster diversity and inclusion, and we give them priority. There are more structured ways and there are other informal ways, such as mentoring other women working for law firms.

CR: We also have ‘Walmart’s Outside Counsel Guidelines’, which establish the expectations the company has of its outside counsel. We expect law firms to stress excellence, integrity, and provide value in resolving legal problems, while also honouring the company’s culture and principles. One of those expectations is to demonstrate commitment to diversity, respect flexible work schedules, promote work-life balance, and to have women as senior partners. We take time to talk about it, and recognise the law firms that advance this cause. Ultimately, we give preference to law firms that foster diversity and inclusion.

GC: You have both been commended for being active promoters of female empowerment and leadership in the workplace. Can you give any specific examples where you have helped other women to reach their full potential and progress in their careers?

BP: I believe that the first thing is to walk the talk. When you reach a leadership position, you need to be aware that people are looking at you. In a large organisation, the few women who reach those positions must be good role models. It is not enough to talk about work-life balance or to talk about supporting and empowering women; you need to live it every day and actively show it. If any young talented woman with the ambition of growing within the organisation looks up and sees that the few women who made it have a miserable life, they will not feel inspired to get there. And, of course, mentoring and sharing one’s experiences is very powerful.

CR: I am counsellor of the Chilean NGO Comunidad Mujer (Women’s Community), and for 12 years, I have been mentor of professional women who seek support and guidance in their career development. This activity has given me much satisfaction, and is also something from which I have benefitted greatly.

“If any talented woman with the ambition of growing within the organisation looks up and sees that the few women who made it have a miserable life, they will not feel inspired to get there.”

Ten years ago, I was the first woman to become part of Walmart Chile’s executive team. I believed I opened the door to other female executives. Today we are four women from ten executives.

I have also supported the career development and promotion of a female lawyer from my Chilean team who is now general counsel in Costa Rica and Central America. I’m so proud of her growth.

GC: How do you go about building a diverse team and leading by example?

BP: Of course, recruiting is key, but also important is the way we form teams for specific projects, the way we manage our team members’ requests, the way we act in every day decisions. For example, a team member who has a sick child will feel more confident in being absent if they see there is an understanding environment for family needs. And the way this is shown is by actions, not words: they need to see that such absence is accepted, that their supervisor shows interest in the child’s health, and that the supervisor also takes leave for family if needed.

“Building a diverse team and leading by example has to be something we constantly have in our minds.”

CR: I consciously aim to recruit different types of talent. I listen, and try to get to know the strengths and weaknesses of each of the team members by having deep one-on-one conversations with them, identifying their biases, and helping to mitigate discriminations.

I am a promoter of career development for men and women, and I’m particularly vocal in promoting both maternal and paternal responsibilities: for example, I always encourage my male lawyers to take on childcare responsibilities during the week (e.g. dropping children to school, or picking them up, etc).

In 2014, we launched a special diversity and inclusion programme, developed with the support of Walmart Legal International, where we assisted law school students (selected by gender, ethnic background, and socioeconomic vulnerability) during their third year. We helped them obtain tools useful for their future professional activities such as English language, mentoring (provided by us or our external law firm partners), and advance networking. This has been a very successful programme.

GC: There is quite a divide between those who believe in quotas to address gender imbalance in the workplace, and those who don’t. Do you have any specific thoughts on that?

BP: I am personally not a fan of quotas, and think they may be very harmful. If you force somebody who is not ready into a leadership position, the probability of failure is high. That failure will not only damage that person and may damage their career, but it also sends the wrong message to the organisation. It can be seen as a counter-example and even limit future promotions. What we need to foster is more talented women in leadership positions, although of course this is not just about gender – it is about talent, and generating the conditions for both talented men and women to reach their full potential. Having said that, sometimes an organisation might need to force things a bit to make the wheel start moving. If that is the case, it has to be done very carefully. In my organisation we do not have quotas, but we have mechanisms in place that seek to ensure that opportunities are equal. Let’s say there is leadership training with open positions for a limited amount of people and that a certain business area only presents male candidates; we would challenge that leader to re-visit the list, to look harder and see if there are any women in whom they see potential and wish to invest. The answer might still be no and that is ok; remember, we look for talent, not just gender.

CR: For me, over time, I have become convinced that quotas are necessary to level the playing field. Sometimes, you have to push for things to happen and quotas are certainly one way of achieving more equal representation of men and women. There are plenty of examples of women who are better qualified for senior roles and have more experience, but aren’t being promoted to top positions because of their gender. I think appointing women to senior positions would create greater confidence among other women.

However, the quotas must be essentially transitory to cause the change; later, when the reality has shifted and equality has been achieved, then quotas will no longer be necessary.

GC: If you could give advice to yourself at the start of your career, what would it be?

BP: I would say to enjoy the ride and each experience. I am more experienced and seasoned now; when I was younger, I was tougher on myself. Now I see my life and career from a different perspective. I am very grateful and feel blessed for the life I have and for the opportunities I have been given; and that includes my career. Sometimes we forget to take the time to stop and appreciate what we have; or we fail in finding the time to support others, which I personally find so rewarding.

CR: My advice would be:

Feel passion for your work;
Your mistakes are learnings and without them, there is no growth;
Do not rest until you find the workplace where you feel comfortable and valued and where you can develop your strengths;
Be curious about the opportunities that come your way;
Take care to always integrate new knowledge and experiences;
Find strength in working collaboratively.

February 26, 2020February 18, 2020

Michael Bruce

GC: How did you become involved with representing Procter & Gamble’s diversity and inclusion initiatives?

Earlier this year, I was invited to an external training session by MARC (Men Advocating for Real Change). It was very eye-opening for me because, as a man you might say ‘Sure, I’m all in favour of D&I and equality’, but what are you really doing? Is it just the idea you like, or are you actually doing something real to achieve equity and equality?

At this training, a lot of very interesting things were said – issues that men don’t even have to think about in their day-to-day lives, but that are commonplace for women. And that’s mostly what I took out of it and what helped me to try to better understand my peers, the women close to me, specifically on the employment side of the issue. The training happened during the week of International Women’s Day, and at the end of that week P&G was participating on a full-day panel with 13 or 14 other multinational companies here in Costa Rica. The event was organised by the Costa Rican Investment Promotion Agency, so it was a big event with close to 600 people attending. One of the IT managers that was participating in the MARC training and was one of the organisers of the Women’s Day event (as you can imagine, IT is way, way underrepresented on gender), reached out to me and said, ‘We have a slot, about ten minutes. Do you think you can prepare something that you can present?’ And I said, ‘Sure. Count me in.’ And that was my first presentation on the topic.

I opened my presentation by saying ‘“He is hormonal.” “He is so intense.” “He got the promotion because the company needed to balance the bands.” “Next time we cannot afford to hire a man for that role.” Those are some of the comments women face every day and men do not.’ I have been using that opening statement ever since. It grabs people’s attention. But it’s also very true. You never hear someone say ‘next time we cannot hire a man for that job. He just couldn’t cut it’. But you hear it about women every single day. And it’s extremely unfair, because competence has nothing to do with gender. Hypothetically I could be a terrible lawyer, way over my head with my role, and people won’t say ‘Oh, it’s because he’s a man’. They’ll say ‘Yes, he was a terrible lawyer; we completely mismanaged the hiring process,’ but my gender is never the issue.

So, that’s how it started and from there I have been invited to give talks to other companies on gender equity issues.

GC: You mentioned that you ‘fell into’ representing P&G on D&I issues, but does the company have a central function that deals with D&I?

Yes, we have what we call ‘pillars’, and D&I is one of them. It looks at many different challenges, one of which is women’s initiatives. Another which was started this year is a neurodiversity project, where we hired six individuals within the autism spectrum. We also have GABLE (Gay, Ally, Bisexual, Lesbian, and Transgender Employees), our LGBTQ network. I also do a little work with GABLE. With the women’s initiatives, as I said, it was just something I fell into, and it has been like putting on a glove. It fits me perfectly. It’s something I believe in, it’s something I feel is important, because I hear so many comments that are not okay.

“I go beyond diversity and inclusion, and I say we need to talk about equity and integration.”

After the first time I went to speak, someone told me that the event was featured in the news. And I thought ‘Oh, good!’ I went to the news programme’s Facebook page, and I found the posting, and I made the worst mistake anyone can make: I read the comments. And there was one that specifically stuck out to me. It was roughly ‘Oh, this is useless, everyone knows women go to social sciences, and men go into engineering, blah, blah, blah’. To me, this was so outrageous, thinking that this might be a parent, a brother – if there’s a young woman starting university wanting to go into science, engineering, maths, technology, and that’s the support they’re getting at home? That was one of the drivers for me to continue finding opportunities to discuss this issue, to show people that if you want to be a pre-school teacher, lawyer, psychologist, engineer – go for it. For me, I’ve never been told ‘you can’t do this; this will never be available to you’. For women, that is something they hear EVERY DAY. And I say that not just because I’m the father of a girl. I could have no children or be the father of ten boys. It would be the same. This is important and we need to change.

GC: How important is it to you that men act as male champions, and also as role models for other men (for example, by taking up opportunities for flexible working)?

It is so important, absolutely. For example, I do flex hours. When P&G started flexible work arrangements here (which was fifteen years ago), this was driven by six or so women who came forward and said ‘Listen, it is difficult for us to keep the same hours; are there any possibilities to work flexibly? We want to continue improving in the company, we still want to work, but we need flexibility’. The company looked into it, and that was it. Those first women were able to take flexible working, and the policy was definitely targeted towards mothers coming back from maternity, or those with young children. But by the following year, the first man had requested flexible working arrangements. And now, today, approximately 95% of the company is using at least one of the flexibility options we have: working from home, not working full-time, etc.

I use it, and I need it. I am divorced, and when I was going through that, it was really difficult for me. My manager at the time said ‘Listen, on Wednesdays, why don’t you leave early, go and pick up your kids from school and spend the afternoon with them, and when you’re able to at night, log back on and check in.’ And I have done that for the last five years.

Often, these working arrangements start because there’s been a reason for women to seek them out, but the beneficiaries are also men. And I think that as leaders we need to show other men that it is okay to leave early, to go to your kid’s soccer game, band presentation, teacher meeting – whatever it may be. As a man, you can do it. The more gear-shifting there is, the more men in senior positions do it, the more we have role models.

It’s just like we need to role model D&I. I go beyond diversity and inclusion, and I say we need to talk about equity and integration. Because that’s what we really need. We need to remove any obstacles that don’t allow someone to achieve equity. We need for everyone to be able to achieve the same, no matter who they are and where they come from.

GC: Do you feel or have you seen that the underlying culture across Latin America, which is quite patriarchal, stymies the take up of those policies?

Yes, definitely. I believe multinational companies have a responsibility to bring best practices to a country where they will eventually become the norm. This year, Costa Rica finally passed a law for flexible working. And why? Because there are so many more multinational companies now, and for them, it’s every day practice. The commerce chamber and associations were also pushing for it. It got enough traction that a law was passed.

One area that I see as low-hanging fruit for companies is paternity leave. You want to get good press for your company? Do paternity leave. It’s so easy. In Costa Rica, by law, mothers have the month before and three months after birth. But offering some type of paternal leave is an equaliser. Because if the conversation shifts from ‘Oh, this woman might one day leave to go on maternity leave’ to ‘Oh, anyone could one day take parental leave’ then it’s a great equaliser. We do it here at P&G, and we are working towards granting more time to fathers so that they can enjoy more time with their children and can help around the house. The president of Costa Rica was pushing for paternity leave and a group within government is working on it. Definitely some organisations and associations are against it, because the money comes from social security. I am completely in favour of it. And hopefully – while we won’t get the full three months – we might get to one month. It’s one of the things I like to talk about.

I talk about gender equity and why it’s important for companies and why we need a diverse workforce, but we also need to talk about the benefits for men of gender equity and more women being in the workforce and the impact is has on society and commerce – it generates more money for the economy. It helps men to move away from these patriarchal strictures: where men need to be the breadwinners, where you have to earn more than your wife or partner. There is a statistic that says women are more likely to try to commit suicide, but men are on average more likely to succeed – they use more brutal means to achieve it. Those suicides – where do they stem from? So often they come from economic problems. Men who lose jobs, men who are in debt – the more we have diverse workforces, the more we have women in work, the more that economic burden is taken away. So, yes, it is a benefit for women but it is also a benefit for men. It’s a benefit for the company. The numbers back up the importance of diversity.

“In our own team, we have a very good gender balance, and we are lucky that this has grown very organically.”

GC: What challenges do you feel the legal industry has in tackling these issues? What does P&G do to tackle gender imbalance?

In the legal profession, we are still way behind. Most law firms, while they may have close to 50/50 representation when it comes to total attorneys, when you get to partner level, it dips substantially. And that’s where we need to call ourselves to attention on it: what are we doing and why? Why are women not achieving partner level in Latin America? That said, it is not just a challenge in Latin America. It is a global challenge.

In our own team, we have a very good gender balance, and we are lucky that this has grown very organically. There haven’t been any team changes in several years. Our chief legal officer is a woman. We had a global meeting in Cincinnati, and these are some of the things we discussed. To me it’s really important how she role models and the things she does. Before Vanessa, the role was filled by a man. The decision wasn’t a conscious ‘oh, it was a man before, now it must be a woman’. It was ‘who is the best person for this role?’ and that person was Vanessa. But I don’t think we will see those big issues here at the company – there might be individual biases – but the company pushes enough what its intent is on the social issues and even more now where the consumer is changing. Consumers, like millennials and Generation Z, want the company to stand for something, not just how much money it can make the shareholders. They want to know what your social issues are, and we have been able to do that through our advertising campaigns.

Our consumer base is predominantly women, and so we really need to practice what we preach. And I think we have three specific campaigns I like to speak about: #LikeAGirl, Share the Load, and We Believe: The Best a Man Can Be. Share the Load started in India and it’s about how, in a very patriarchal way, we assign jobs at the house for women and you go to work and do a full day’s work and then you come home and you have a full day’s work ahead of you again with household chores. And it’s fascinating to see what parents see in how they are raising their kids, or how dads are raising their daughters and how they wished they would have role-modelled differently. And then in 2019 we had our Gillette campaign, where we got clobbered on social media, because apparently there’s nothing more fragile than the male ego. And I don’t get it. I guess the other two campaigns were very inspiring and this was very ‘in your face’, deliberately. But it delivers a message and in the end the numbers backed up that we were right. It was the right call to go that way.

GC: From the legal industry perspective, when you’re thinking about panel law firms and who you give work to, do you look at diversity statistics? Does it influence your decision?

The law firms that I specifically use right now were in place before I started at P&G. Unfortunately, that’s not something I can say we reviewed or I reviewed at the time. But at least one of the firms has a very diverse and very close to 50/50 representation in partners. The other one does not. It’s a very much more traditional Costa Rican set up. But now that I’m more into the importance of this, in everything I try to look at where it is: what does the firm stand for, what does the company stand for, and I look at it in other firms here in Costa Rica. I like to look at whether firms are ranking for diversity.

I think we’re on the right track; we’re starting to talk more about the importance of diversity. It’s a long-term commitment to change, and sometimes you have to start small. It’s like in your personal life, you can’t just say, from now on I’m going to wake up at 5am every day and run 10km, and get to the office early, and eat vegan, and at night volunteer with charities. Choose one initiative, internalise it, commit to it, and then move on to others when you’re ready. Companies can’t go from zero to 100 in a few seconds – it has to be gradual and we have to work on it, work on the culture. Leaders have to role model and show that what they are saying is definitely what the company stands for. Eventually we will reach our goal.

February 26, 2020February 18, 2020

María Gabriela Alvarez de la Fuente

I began my career as a legal assistant at court while I was still studying law at Buenos Aires University. After graduating law school, I spent three years in private practice before moving to BASF Argentina S.A. as an in-house corporate lawyer. In 2003, I had seen a job advertised at BASF and I found it really interesting. While I had really enjoyed my experience working in private practice, I wanted to feel part of a company. I applied for the role, and thankfully was successful! The switch from private practice to an in-house role was not a difficult one for me, and I found that I really enjoyed working with people from across the different departments, getting to know what the business was about, and contributing to its success. Since then, my experience has been solely as an in-house lawyer. I spent 12 years at BASF, during which time I received several promotions, and then followed that with a shorter stint at adidas as their director of legal and compliance (Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay). I then joined Colgate-Palmolive in May 2016 as its regional legal director, Southern Cone. Colgate-Palmolive, the US worldwide consumer products company, focuses on the production and distribution of household, healthcare, and personal care products and operates in Argentina through its subsidiary Colgate-Palmolive Argentina.

In my current role, I have simplified several processes within the legal department, and have also worked hard to bring the legal team closer to the rest of the company – and the rest of the company closer to the legal team. I encourage colleagues from other departments to feel free to contact our legal team early, believing they will receive good advice from us, not just as lawyers, but as business partners. I believe that my attitude of openness and transparency has definitely proved successful. In the past three years, I have built up a rich portfolio by supporting projects that involved the launch of new products and technologies, facing challenges from competitors regarding product claims, as well as handling various business restructuring and litigation cases that are still ongoing. At the heart of everything I do, I aim to show that lawyers are not just a cost centre, but are creating value for the businesses in which they operate. I lead my team by example, and concentrate on providing commercially astute and solution-focused advice that enables the business to be successful in the marketplace while also protecting its business model.

While I have managed to build a strong reputation at Colgate-Palmolive for being committed to my vision, I believe I am also known for having a strong focus on people and being passionate about developing a diverse legal team to deliver results.

At Colgate-Palmolive, we are a small team of three people – all women. However, I have always managed very diverse teams during my career in private practice, and in-house at BASF and adidas. Diversity for me, though, is not only about gender; it is about embracing all the different ways of thinking. When I worked for BASF and adidas, I had teams that were very diverse: different ages, sexes, social backgrounds, and points of view. The more diverse a team is, the more creative it can be.

“Diversity for me is not only about gender; it is about embracing all the different ways of thinking.”

As well as being responsible for building my own diverse legal teams, I also promote gender equality across the business. I feel as a leader I have the responsibility to promote diversity. Within Colgate-Palmolive, I am the internal sponsor of the Colgate Women Network in Southern Cone territories, which is the region under my scope (Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, and Paraguay). The Colgate Women Network is a global initiative that fosters an inclusive and diverse environment, and different activities are carried on in every country around the world. But the initiative has local implementation too. In Southern Cone, we organise activities and lectures and try to develop policies in order to help women grow in their careers with Colgate. For example, we organise inspiring breakfasts with women leaders in the region. These are often in an interview format, so that attendees can get to understand their experiences, the obstacles those women had to deal with while they forged their careers, and how they have managed their work-life-family balance. In 2019, we organised lectures on topics such as leadership, personal branding, and personal finance.

I am also committed to promoting gender equality outside my work environment, and I am currently involved with organisations such as IDEA to help promote diversity and inclusion in law firms and companies. While there is certainly a long way to go before there is gender equality in the legal industry, it is not the only industry in which it is more difficult to be listened to and to get ahead if you are a woman. I used to have that feeling – of not being listened to – especially when I was younger. But, the world has changed a lot… and it is still changing. Fortunately, in my current job, I don’t experience this anymore, and I’ve certainly been able to move ahead with my career. What I have observed, though, is that in private practice, the pace of change is much slower: the number of female partners is still much smaller than the number of male partners.

Quotas, of course, could go a long way towards solving the gender imbalance in the legal industry, but I do have mixed thoughts about them. In some cases, I believe quotas could be a good way to help those women who could not have got to a certain place without that kind of help; and I believe they can be helpful, especially in industries in which there is still a lot of work to be done with gender equality. However, using quotas to simply make up the numbers won’t work – for true equity and equality to take hold, there has to be a cultural shift and a change of mindset about women’s place in the workforce.