Category: Interviews

In February 2019, I stepped down from my position as general counsel of Ingredion after 22 years. I had a wonderful career – it’s a great company, I can’t say enough positive things about it – but 22 years is a long time. The previous year, I had taken a continuing legal education program on mental health, largely because it’s now a requirement in Illinois to maintain your bar license. The program I chose was on burnout and, as I was listening, I started to recognize a lot of these symptoms in myself: feeling continually overwhelmed, having a lack of patience and energy to connect with others, and physical symptoms including headaches and not sleeping well. I realized that I desperately needed a change. I knew I was under stress. I knew I had anxiety – I guess I just didn’t realize it was a problem. I hadn’t stepped back and taken a look at all of these disparate symptoms and said: hey, there’s something more here.

For a long time, those of us in the law thought of mental health issues as being limited to drug addiction or alcohol abuse. We didn’t realize there was so much more to mental health. And people didn’t speak about these issues – except maybe with their very close friends – for fear of being judged, losing their jobs or not being seen as good enough to continue practising law. I realized that, right now, we need to be able to speak openly about mental health. Storytelling is very important – people using their own voices and talking about their own experiences.

There’s a landmark study called the ABA Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation Study. It was completed in 2016, and it surveyed 15,000 attorneys in 19 states, all currently employed in the legal profession. 21% self-identified as having difficulties with alcohol, 28% self-identified as struggling with depression and 19% indicated that they demonstrated symptoms of anxiety. What’s scary is 11.5% had considered suicide. Younger attorneys in the first ten years of practice reported a higher incidence of these problems, and that’s a change, because earlier studies showed this as more of a ‘later-in-career’ problem. The study showed that attorneys in the United States had higher rates of drinking and mental health issues than in other high-stress professions. Lawyers working in law firms have the highest rates of alcohol abuse, and law students drink more alcohol and have higher rates of anxiety than their non-law peers.

There are a lot of factors at play. Law is a hard profession; it’s stressful, you work long hours, and you give a lot of yourself personally. Many lawyers are ‘type A’ personalities and we are driven to win, both personally and on behalf of our clients. We are taught to look for risk in every situation, and even in our personal lives we spend time looking for what can go wrong. Many of us have very high personal standards of performance and, for many of us, particularly in law firms, long hours can be seen as a proxy for both devotion and success. There is a fear that admitting to vulnerability of any kind can be career limiting. There’s also a perception that there is some ideal model of what a lawyer should look like, and I think that’s even more true in the big law firms. That model is not a true reflection of who a lot of people are – in addition to creating mental health stressors, perhaps this hits our diverse lawyers even harder.

I think one thing that needs to improve is our storytelling – the ability for people to speak out and say: ‘This is my experience and I’m still a good lawyer’. Flextime, alternative career paths, use of technology in the work environment – these are all partial answers. But the biggest piece is really to remove the stigma around the topic of mental health and bring it into the light of day. The next generation of lawyers needs to know they are not alone, and that it’s acceptable to make their own wellness a priority. It could be through individual actions like meditation, yoga, fitness and personal care. But I think, particularly with younger employees coming into the workforce, people are realizing that a stressed out, burnt-out workforce is not going to be competitive in the future. People should be incentivized – or at least disincentivized – for behaviors that are not sustainable in the long term. You need to remember that a legal career is a long-term play – it’s not about how many hours you can bill this year.

I think younger workers are using their feet to demand better working environments. Younger employees don’t expect to work for an employer for 20 years – they expect to work at multiple different companies and in different industries throughout their career, and perhaps even change their professional focus. If they are in a work environment they don’t like, they’re going to leave. They feel perfectly free to try something new. Work environments that acknowledge and cater to the whole person will win the war for talent.

I also think we need to make sure that our professional interactions, our networking events and our social interactions, are comfortable for everyone. There are a whole host of diversity topics here, but alcohol plays a key part in the mental health arena. Alcohol does not need to be served in order to have a social or networking event. I think the younger generation would appreciate that from us. I sit on the board of trustees of a law school and I’ve heard law students in the student lounge complaining about this – they want to go and meet lawyers and learn about the profession. They don’t want to drink. They don’t want to see alcohol at every event.

As a workforce, we are seeing people in their 40s and 50s who are really struggling with mental health issues and who are realizing, perhaps based on the good example that our younger employees provide, that it’s alright to talk about things.

The legal profession agrees. The ABA model rule recommends that lawyers earn one continuing legal education credit hour in mental health or substance abuse disorders every three years, as well as one hour of diversity and inclusion programming. States are not required to do this, but Illinois adopted this recommendation, and it’s definitely a growing trend. In part, Illinois did so because people didn’t take these courses despite them always being available. There was a perception that taking a mental health program could reflect negatively on the attorney, or that they were only for people with a drug or alcohol problem. In Illinois, we also have the Lawyers’ Assistance Program (many states have something similar), which is a free scheme providing help for lawyers experiencing mental health issues. The continuing legal education requirement helps publicize the available resources, so that more attorneys know they can get support.

More experienced lawyers also need to help law students, younger lawyers, and the non-lawyer professionals around us feel comfortable talking about these issues and finding help. Even if it’s something that seems trivial, like burnout: to speak about it, to realize it’s important, to get help, to make change – these can all serve to remove the stigma and create the sense that seeking help doesn’t mean someone has a problem, it just means they are taking care of themselves.

I think that when we talk about the war for talent, companies and law firms need to take care of their existing talent. I think the greatest compliment that can be paid to a general counsel, or any leader, is when a member of their team becomes a general counsel somewhere else, or takes a promotion somewhere else, because that general counsel or leader helped create a safe place for them to grow, professionally and personally.

I recently completed the National Diversity Council’s DiversityFirst certification program. I saw diversity and inclusion gaining stature as a profession, not just a function of human resources, similar to the relationship of the legal department and compliance a decade ago. I felt like training in this area has been way too slow in coming – and it’s been limited to human resources professionals. The continuing legal education courses I attended on this topic didn’t go deep enough. I wanted to go beyond ‘diversity is good’ and really talk about practical ways to create an inclusive environment and to be an inclusive leader.

I feel we are at an interesting intersection of the law and D&I. In the past, lawyers counseled our clients to be color blind. Knowing too much about employees’ personal lives can lead to employment discrimination claims, particularly in the event of an unrelated performance action or a cost-based restructuring. We struggled as lawyers when clients wanted to have metrics or quantitative data about diversity, for fear this information could be used in litigation. But D&I really requires us to embrace differences and be able to talk about them openly – and I think we all agree that if you don’t measure in some way, diversity doesn’t happen. The old way of counseling our clients just doesn’t fit the workplace of today or of tomorrow. We need to be thinking about what workplace interactions will look like in this very inclusive employment environment. How do we get there today, without increasing our risk of employment litigation? For a lot of companies, that is a big concern, but one that can be overcome as we embrace and create inclusive workplaces, with a focus on the employee as a unique individual, while we all learn how to speak openly about mental health and diversity issues.

SoundCloud’s mission is to give people the power to share and connect through music. The platform’s community of creators and listeners are a young and an incredibly diverse group, and we work hard to ensure our employees reflect this diversity as well. SoundCloud approaches diversity as fundamental to our business strategy, not a secondary part of our HR function, because a diverse workforce enriches and adds real business value in terms of our company and the platform.

As general counsel, I proactively recruit and work to retain a diverse business and legal affairs team. The team works hard every day to make SoundCloud great, and they do this because not only are they hard workers, but they are each represented, valued and – in turn – vested in our collective successes. That’s diversity in action.

SoundCloud is unique, as it sits across multiple industries. For example, the music industry overall still has work to do in advancing diversity and inclusion commitments that truly reflect the breadth of the music community. The tech industry, on the other hand, has a steeper climb because of the lack of representation across women, people of color and LGBTQ. I was on a panel several years ago with other openly gay black men in tech, and everything I heard there confirmed the need for the tech space to do better at all levels, from hiring and cultural processes, to supporting STEM diversity. The good news is that people, from the CEO down, see the problems, which is the first step in creating change. I’m proud to work at SoundCloud knowing almost half our board of directors, and three quarters of our lead board members are people of color. It’s important for me to continually work and build on this achievement, while leading by example.

When it comes to improving diversity, as a leader, you need to first and foremost focus on visibility, because optics are everything. I present at as many external events and panels as possible. I say yes to as many networking opportunities for students and young lawyers as I can accommodate. I’m always willing to share my story – the good, the bad and the ugly! I also actively look for ways to raise the visibility of my team at all levels of the organization and sing their praises. We succeed when everyone gets an opportunity to shine, and I want to celebrate the good things and spread the love.

Recruitment is clearly the critical place to drive diversity and inclusion, and I focus on this area in my efforts at SoundCloud. First, it’s important to go to where the talent is, and ensure job postings end up on sites that draw diverse audiences. I then alert and activate my personal network, which helps funnel young and diverse talent that would benefit my department and SoundCloud as a whole.

It’s also important to have patience in the recruiting process to ensure we identify and interview diverse candidates. SoundCloud uses interview panels, which include multiple stakeholders with different viewpoints to help candidates get a strong sense for individual departments, such as my business and legal affairs team, and SoundCloud as a company.

SoundCloud also offers diversity resource groups (DRGs), which help to recruit talent and forge connections while building community. I personally encourage participation in these groups, because it’s not just enough to bring someone in the door, you want them to stay and contribute. Part of being able to do so is feeling comfortable, and DRGs provide an opportunity for people to find that comfort level, make connections, and feel empowered to bring their whole selves to work. For those who are not DRG members, these groups can provide a platform and an opportunity to learn about the backgrounds, culture and experiences of people who are unlike themselves. If we’re going to talk about our product road map or what’s next in music, but have gaps in understanding between our organization and our creator community, then there is a disconnect and a missed business opportunity. DRGs provide a concrete structure for bringing insight and connectivity to SoundCloud.

I serve as the executive sponsor of one of our DRGs, Clouds of Color. This means I have to truly show up, be available to the employees, champion and advocate for them and their ideas, and represent their interests. It’s a role I take as seriously as being general counsel.

Diversity should also be a topic of discussion with external partners. I ask law firms that are pitching us their services how they approach diversity in their ranks and, specifically, whether diverse lawyers will be covering my matters. What connects law firms and in-house departments is the relationship and level of comfort you have. Fundamental to building this up is simply the ability to have a conversation about these issues. It’s important to constantly nurture that comfort level for the relationship to grow. It’s important to me, my team members who interact with outside counsel, and to our company, that the firms we work with reflect SoundCloud values, and it’s my hope that the firms we work with hold us to an equally high standard. The more that companies engage in dialogue with potential clients, the better for everyone, both for the industries being served by law firms and also for the legal industry.

Looking to the future, SoundCloud needs to continually seek out ways to diversify our ranks, promote more diverse employees into leadership positions and foster a culture of inclusiveness. Going above and beyond is what SoundCloud does really well for the 20 million plus creators on the platform and our listeners who come to SoundCloud to discover what’s new and next. I always want to bring that same energy and thinking to our diversity and inclusion strategy, and watch it thrive.

For the first 12 or 13 years of my career, I was blissfully, painfully unaware of genuine issues on inclusion and diversity. I knew how to say the right things because I’d gone through all the training programs, but I didn’t really feel it in my heart of hearts. I’m a white male from the New York City area, so I was always part of the majority culture in whatever major law firm or major US corporation that I worked for.

Then I came to work for DSM, which is a Dutch-headquartered company, and I found myself travelling at least once a month to the Netherlands for internal meetings. It was all Dutch people, and they would speak in a language that I didn’t understand, they’d talk about sports teams that I didn’t follow, they’d eat food that I found very strange, they wouldn’t invite me to dinners or lunches or even just for coffee because I was the outsider in many respects. I would find myself flying home on the plane feeling depressed, angry and frustrated.

It finally dawned on me that, for the first time in my career, I wasn’t part of the majority culture in these environments, and it altered my behavior. It made me hesitant, it made me less likely to speak up, it made me much more aware and in tune with all the little gestures and words that were made in the room – and that was exhausting.

I was actually thinking of leaving and, after a few of those trips, I said to myself, if I feel like this when I go there, how do my female employees, my racial minority employees, how do they feel working in an environment that’s predominantly American white male? So I asked them, and they told me. That was my epiphany: how can we get the most out of any organization when such a significant portion of it is not bringing their whole selves to work every day (like I wasn’t when I went to the Netherlands)? And that was how we began to change the programs.

Now that I found myself to be awake and aware of these issues and the impact of not being part of the majority culture, I started to work hard to change things. I had a more junior female lawyer that I worked very closely with for a few years on mergers and acquisitions and, as a consequence, she would sometimes have to travel for two, three weeks at a time when we were doing due diligence at a location or in the midst of a transactional negotiation. She did a great job.

Over a period of two years, she had two small children, and so I said to myself, why don’t I take some of the pressure off of her and not give her these assignments anymore because they require her to be away from her family and two small children for such an extended period of time? What a great person I am!

And then I talked to my sister, who’s about the same age and a lawyer at a corporation in the US. With such pride I explained it all to her, and she looked at me and said, ‘You are a number one fool!’

And I said, ‘What are you talking about? Look how smart and progressive I am!’

She said, ‘No, you are a complete idiot. Who are you to decide for this person what they can and cannot do? Do you decide that for your male lawyers?’

So the next Monday, I went into the office, set up a meeting with this lawyer and said, ‘Look, I think I have really done you a disservice. I thought I was being a good guy by not assigning you these M&A projects that would have been high-profile, but would have required you to be away from your family, and it has been brought to my attention that maybe that wasn’t the smart thing to do.’

She actually started crying, and said, ‘I’ve been thinking of leaving the company, because I thought that since I’d had children you had lost faith in me.’

Going forward, I’ve been very keen on talking to all of our employees around, ‘Hey look, if you have an issue with the demands of different assignments because you can’t balance it with what you have going on at home or with elderly parents, tell me, and accommodations will be made and there will be no adverse consequences for you.’ But I don’t want to be in the position ever again where I’m making decisions for people without having that conversation with them.

Certainly we look to recruit and hire diverse talent, so we take a lot of different things into consideration when we’re looking to hire lawyers for the law department that go beyond just experience. We try to bring in diversity in terms of age, gender, national origin and race. They certainly can’t be determinative factors in hiring because that would be discriminatory, but they are definitely taken into consideration and we certainly put in place – not just for the law department but for all of DSM – different tools and processes to try to weed out unconscious bias in the hiring process.

We use a basic questionnaire that’s the same for everyone, so we can generate similar responses and ensure that there’s no bias in the questioning or interviewing process. We have a diverse team that looks at responses again to ensure we’re weeding out a little bit of the unconscious bias that creates an environment where folks tend to hire people that look like them, act like them and think like them. Then, our diverse team will have an opportunity to not only conduct interviews but be part of the decision-making process. As such, it’s not just me making a decision as to who we hire and who we don’t hire, but the team itself – I give a great deal of autonomy to make a decision as to whether or not a candidate will fit with the team from an inclusion perspective or not.

Once we bring lawyers on board, the inclusion part is where it gets difficult. You really have to spend a lot of time and energy and effort to ensure that when you bring folks together from different backgrounds and different experiences, that it is a very close team, communicative and collaborative – and that can only happen when you spend time ensuring that there’s complete transparency and authenticity, and giving everybody an opportunity to reach their full potential within the group.

DSM is not unique – many companies have a lot of internal diversity and inclusion and unconscious bias training programs and things like that, which I find to be very nice but not impactful. So I try to create experiential learning opportunities for members of the team, because that’s how I came to my epiphany on these issues myself. I’m on the board of directors of the Tri-State Diversity Council and what I’ll try to do, for example, is find some white male attorneys and send them to events that are overwhelmingly attended by African American females. Putting people in an environment where, for the first time in many respects, they are part of the minority culture is an eye-opening experience for them, and those experiential learning opportunities create a need for reflection. That reflection allows for adaptation, not just in behaviors but point of view. The most important thing for me, is that those members of the legal team who are part of the majority culture have an opportunity to be confronted with the privilege that comes with that majority, and that changes their point of view. When I create these experiential learning opportunities at provocative inclusion and diversity conferences and experiences, the lawyers come back with their own evangelical bent on the issue and then become my ambassadors within the organization for change.

I’m working on a project for the whole company to completely rewrite our policies, procedures and norms to be a better fit for the future of work. I’m a strong believer that, in corporate America today, the current policies, procedures, benefits and practices were written 60 years ago by people who looked like me – and they are still working really well for people who look like me. If we want to drive change, we don’t make incremental changes to these policies, practices and procedures to adjust to changes in the law, we bring a diverse team together to rewrite them so that they work for everyone.

To me, it’s about adapting to the future of work. We’ll see much more flexible work time, much more use of technology for collaboration, more concierge services offered to employees so that they’re not wasting their time grocery shopping and picking up dry cleaning and things like that, much more of the forced sponsorship programs where diverse talent gets a traditional sponsor so that the next generation of leaders doesn’t look exactly like the previous generation of leaders. I’m completely convinced that, because of demographic changes, diversity is a given. If a company is not diverse going forward, it just means it’s forgotten a half-to-two-thirds of the population when looking for talent, and no company can survive that way. It’s those companies that create a culture, environment and infrastructure to foster inclusiveness that will be really successful going forward.

In the legal industry, we have a challenge with promoting diverse talent, particularly at the senior levels of the profession. We do pretty well with diverse representation at junior levels, in part because law schools – while not graduating totally representative classes – are graduating a high percentage of women who make up more than 50% of top law school graduates and around 40% of all law school graduates. People of color are also increasingly well represented in today’s graduating law school classes. As a result, many opportunities exist to get fairly representative junior classes of lawyers into firms.

What law firms are not good at is retaining and promoting this diverse talent. If firms – or in-house legal teams – want to address this challenge and effect real change through a diversity and inclusion (D&I) strategy, several things need to work in tandem.

First, the entire talent strategy needs to treat all the members of the organization as valuable people whose professional development is important. If you try to build a D&I strategy without an overarching talent strategy that takes into account the importance of all contributors, you run the risk of backlash against the D&I initiative because it is seen as supporting a subgroup while not taking care of the overall organization.

Second, there needs to be serious, focused attention on diversity in the talent acquisition model – and by that, I mean more than simply ensuring that you go through the formality of including diverse candidates in each panel of candidates. Rather, the organization needs to understand where it may be lacking in diversity. For example, in both legal organizations that I have led, we’ve had a majority female organization at the more junior levels and very low representation of people of color at all levels. As such, an explicit focus on the diversity gaps in the talent cohort is very important, and a clear understanding of the need to fill those gaps must be understood by everybody who is involved in the talent acquisition exercise.

To get a bit more granular, I think it’s very important to use techniques of interviewing that are designed to identify attributes that will help you find people with leadership competencies: people who have the ability to rise through the organization. We do that through an interview process designed to identify emotional intelligence – to put interviewees a little bit on their heels, make them understand that what we really want to find out about them is their ability to think on their feet, approach unexpected situations with confidence and exhibit authenticity and candor.

The third component of the D&I strategy is to create a diverse leadership pipeline. This involves creating a succession plan and making sure that you’re giving due regard to diversity in your talent-shaping agenda. The way that I did that at MetLife was by conducting an assessment of all of the non-officer talent – people who are below the manager level in the organization – and their leadership aptitude. To identify the leading non-officer candidates for future leadership, we assessed these individuals through a combination of survey techniques with clients, peers, managers, subordinates, and the senior leadership of the legal organization. The leading candidates – about 10% of the non-leaders – are invited to participate in a leadership academy that involves allocating stretch assignments and providing sponsors who are accountable for making sure that they get experiences, exposure and training to develop their leadership aptitude. It’s not an exercise that’s focused exclusively on diverse talent; in fact, it must be bias-blind. This is important because, in my experience, existing leaders usually tap future leaders on the shoulder, a model that allows unconscious bias to figure very significantly in the leadership development process.

In order to ensure a bias-blind approach, I stress the importance of going outside of the organization and asking the business partners who are actually receiving the advice and advocacy of lawyers to evaluate these emerging leaders on six-to-eight leadership attributes in a very simple survey instrument. In the past, we’ve tried to get at least 20 individual evaluations of each candidate so that you can measure trends about the various individuals in the organization. It’s not a precise science, but it does end up identifying some of the strongest candidates. It’s good to do it annually so the organization can continue refining and correcting its approach to identifying candidates for future leadership.

One of the things I learned at MetLife was to leave people in the leadership academy as long as they are growing and performing well. If you find that is not the case, release them from the leadership academy, have a thoughtful and constructive conversation with them about why they are being released, and discuss what they should do if they want to be readmitted. At the same time, continue to evaluate the population that wasn’t selected for the leadership academy, and consider bringing new people in.

It’s critical to make sure that this kind of initiative has a salutary effect on the organization as a whole and doesn’t end up producing the opposite effect by making individuals who have been excluded feel like their exclusion was unfair. Of course, communication is key, and you need to introduce thoughtfulness and flexibility into your strategy.

As part of the leadership development program at MetLife, I also created a stewardship initiative that involved one-on-one sponsorship relationships to cultivate future leaders. The sponsor and the protégé create a leadership development plan that includes specific objectives to achieve in a three-to-five-year timeframe, with milestones along the way. The plan could include experiences, training, exposure – any number of different things – and there is a timeline associated with each of the articulated objectives. You also measure the performance of both the protégé and the sponsor by looking at accomplishment or non-accomplishment of the stated objectives and milestones. If you are not successful, you figure out whether you have a weakness on the protégé side, on the sponsor side, or both.

At MetLife, we presented our stewardship initiative to our outside counsel. We showed them what we were doing to hold senior leadership accountable for the retention and promotion of our diverse talent and the obligation of all officers in the organization to sponsor a rising leader and be measured on their results as a sponsor.

As part of the discussion on sponsorship, we gave our outside counsel a deadline to put in place specific plans and strategies to hold their leadership team accountable for the retention and promotion of diverse talent in their organization. We promised to support them in this effort, but if we could not come to an agreement on an acceptable D&I sponsorship program within two years, we would exclude them from our approved counsel list. That proved very effective.

When we identify very strong candidates for advancement, we frequently find it difficult to hold on to those people, because they have so many opportunities put in front of them. You are often disappointed by having lost someone that you had in your mind’s eye as a key component of the future leadership of the organization. But those are just things that you have to manage – the ordinary challenges that come with running a corporate organization.

I look forward to implementing these initiatives in the legal division at Freddie Mac and I am very confident and optimistic that we’re going to have a very successful D&I strategy and execution. Freddie Mac’s human resources leadership is looking at our D&I strategy as a pilot that it’s considering implementing throughout the rest of the organization, so I’m very enthusiastic, flattered and encouraged by that.

My journey to the law, on paper, was pretty straightforward. School, high school, undergraduate degree, and then straight into law school. But my hand was forced, slightly, towards the legal profession.

My real interest in school, even through undergraduate study, was in science. But I have muscular dystrophy – I was diagnosed when I was around three or four, and it’s a progressive disability, so I knew from an early age that it would worsen as I got older. Law was a very good choice for me, because the only thing required to practice law was a mind and a mouth. Muscular dystrophy does not attack those, so it was something that I felt I could actually have a long career in – and it was a laudable profession to enter.

In some ways, I think that having muscular dystrophy taught me to be an advocate from a young age – to stand up for myself and try to speak and educate people. I also think that growing up with a disability made me a little bit more patient, and it definitely made me a better listener. Maybe the quick answer isn’t always the right answer. It never hurts to listen, hear something out, and do a little bit more research, to try and think, engage or get creative on a solution.

With disability, there are challenges in all aspects of your life. My wheelchair comes with me, so architectural barriers are just everywhere. There are issues in housing, transportation, education, and places of public accommodation, like stores and restaurants. I have witnessed great strides and many improvements in accessibility, but there’s still a long way to go.

However, more problematic than architectural issues are the attitudinal barriers that still haven’t fully been breached. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that, historically, people with disabilities have had the lowest representation in all aspects of life. Just me being in a room at a closing or in court, sitting across a table from an adversary or discussing things with clients – the importance of that is immeasurable. The best way to learn is by observing, and the best way for that is to have people with disabilities more visible in every facet of life.

Traditionally, a lot of people with disabilities have been employed in disability-related fields. That’s great, and it’s important, but that’s not the be-all and end-all of life experience for people. I think that the more you see individuals with disabilities in regular roles, like in the law department doing real estate work, the better. Frequently I’m the first person that non-disabled people have a professional experience with, and that takeaway is enormous, because these people go back to their firms, go back to their lives in business, and maybe there’s a conversation at the dinner table, or maybe their kids hear something about it. It’s not a formal type of experience where somebody takes a class, or a piece of legislation is enacted – it’s more real.

Disability runs the spectrum; there are lots of people with either invisible or less visible, not-so-obvious disabilities. But I haven’t had somebody else with a visible disability sitting on the opposite side of a conference room table from me, or appearing in court on the other side of a case. I’ve encountered many other diverse attorneys professionally, but I haven’t had the experience of having an attorney with a visible disability as an adversary. It would be odd for almost any other diverse attorney to have an experience where they have never encountered a similarly diverse attorney (as an adversary) in their professional lives.

In terms of the New York City Law Department, there are several other attorneys with disabilities, and frequently what happens is an introduction is made with newer attorneys with disabilities, even if it’s just a summer intern. I might be able to provide some advice to newer attorneys starting out, or somebody who might be thinking of the Law Department, and it’s always beneficial to have someone else who’s been through something similar to talk to. There are some unique challenges and issues that we face where the only other person who might be able to fully understand, or think of solutions, or just be a friendly ear, would be someone else who’s been through it too.

Several months ago, I was one of the presenters and planners for the first continuing legal education course given by the Law Department for City attorneys on disability rights. That was really a great thing to be involved with and it was also a real honor to be asked.

I serve on the Law Department’s Committee on Diversity Recruitment and Retention. I was the first attorney with a disability to serve on that committee. Through that committee, we became a signatory to the American Bar Association’s Disability Diversity in the Legal Profession Pledge for Change. The pledge recognizes that disability diversity is in the best interests of the legal profession, our clients, and our firms. Attorneys with disabilities are important constituents of legal practice, and you should take steps to be more inclusive, while also giving more recognition to these types of issues.

I was the chair of the disability mentoring day program that we run, where high school and college-age students with disabilities come here to the Law Department. They sit in lectures from attorneys who explain what we do, give them tours and that sort of thing. It’s to keep the interest of those students who may not necessarily think that law is a possibility for them, and explain to them it is not worth closing themselves off from work. It was really a wonderful program to be involved in.

Our people are really dedicated to making the Law Department and the practice of law in general more inclusive through training, hosting lectures where people from different diverse backgrounds come here, and hosting receptions welcoming new summer interns or new attorneys into the Law Department, where we can highlight that diversity is important. We represent the people of the city of New York in a way; New York City is one of the most diverse cities anywhere, the Law Department is one of the most diverse law offices anywhere, and it’s both an important and necessary thing for every law office and every employer to represent the communities that they work in.

Personally, I’ve been involved with several disability rights organizations, and one of them is Brooklyn Center for Independence of the Disabled (BCID). It’s in the living sector and its goals are to provide information, assistance and counseling for people with disabilities to navigate the bureaucracy of programs that might enable them to live and work, through advocacy; whether it’s going to local businesses and educating them in making their organization more wheelchair-friendly – for example, by installing ramps or training staff – or providing guidance to students who might be transitioning from high school or college and preparing them for career decisions. I’m vice president to the board of directors.

I’m also involved with an organization called NMD United, and that organization is founded by professional people with various forms of muscular dystrophy to assist fellow people with the condition, who can offer advice on aspects of living with a neuromuscular disability. That could be by finding personal attendants, discussing issues with housing, access or benefits, and we’re also involved in providing microgrants to help with certain disability-related expenses that might not necessarily be covered by insurance or other programs. Even for something simple like wheelchair repair, there might be bureaucratic hoops to jump through with insurers to get coverage. But if your wheelchair breaks, lots of people end up trapped at home, or even trapped in bed, just because of a relatively small repair.

If you have an attorney with a disability, or even a member of support staff with a disability, engage with them; ask what works for them, and for their advice on issues. There’s a wealth of knowledge on problems that could be tapped into. And, engage the community: invite schools over and have open house – like our disability mentoring day, or ‘bring your children to work day’. Little things like that are really important, because you want to teach people from a young age that there are options and choices – that inclusion works.

Legislation is wonderful, and regulation is wonderful, but you also need the community to really embrace issues and to be accommodating. Changing an attitudinal barrier costs nothing. If you’re going to put together training programs, have one (or many) that can cover multiple facets of inclusion. Be inclusive in training: recognize there are issues that need to be addressed and the best way of doing it is by encouraging further dialogue, and engaging with those who know best in order to try and address those issues.

At NBCUniversal, like many institutions, we recognize that diversity is a business imperative. As our viewers and customers become more diverse, we need to make sure that we are reflecting diversity both in front of and behind the camera, as well as throughout the organization.

At NBCUniversal we have an annual talent review process, where every senior executive reports to the CEO about their teams. One goal of the review process is succession planning, and our CEO has mandated that the talent review include a specific discussion about diverse talent. This has encouraged all senior executives to think about their teams with diversity top of mind, and ensures we’re considering the broadest possible pool of up-and-coming leaders for the company.

I have a similar discussion with all of my senior leaders in order to prepare me to talk to the CEO, and it has a cascading effect. Our legal function is incredibly diverse, both along gender and ethnicity lines, and we aim to lead by example. The conversations that I have with my team are about not only identifying diverse talent, but planning the concrete steps that we are going to take to develop them into future leaders. We are focused on being mindful about the development of our diverse talent and making sure they are getting the right skill development and the right opportunities to make them successful candidates for future leadership roles. With the help of our fantastic HR team, we make sure we’re following up on these goals. While aggregate workforce statistics are important to monitor, I think it’s even more important to focus on the individual development of diverse talent. It takes more energy, but it’s something we have to be committed to if we want to see more diverse lawyers at senior levels.

Turning to recruitment efforts, we have spent time considering the best ways to engage future NBCUniversal lawyers. We have a diversity committee for the legal function, led by one of my senior leaders and comprised of lawyers and professional staff from across our business units and locations at a range of seniority levels. Among the activities our diversity committee focuses on are pipeline initiatives. We speak to high school and law school students to talk to them about a career in entertainment and media law. We hope these efforts will encourage diverse students to choose our field for a career so that our applicant pool becomes even more diverse over time.

We also hold receptions in New York and Los Angeles for diverse lawyers in the industry and those interested in transitioning to media and entertainment law. Our goal for these receptions is to introduce the company and hopefully spark an interest in a career at NBCUniversal, in part by showcasing the wide range of legal careers available at NBCUniversal but also by emphasizing our commitment to diversity. These receptions also help us identify talented lawyers that we may want to recruit for open roles.

Additionally, NBCUniversal sponsors a multitude of diverse bar associations. We send representatives from our team to the annual conferences and use these events as professional development opportunities for up-and-coming diverse talent. The NBCU lawyers chosen as representatives of the company get the opportunity to network with other lawyers in the industry or in the particular affinity group, and often participate on panels. Through these networking opportunities, we also hope to find other lawyers we may want to bring into the company, or outside counsel we may want to hire. We also work with diverse bar associations to post our open job opportunities.

Another priority is ensuring the diversity of our external counsel. For a number of years, we focused our outside counsel diversity efforts on hiring minority- and women-owned firms. We made great progress in that area, but we realized that the majority of our external spend was going to majority-owned firms. As a result, more recently, we have focused on making progress on diversity with the majority-owned firms that we hire. Our outside counsel guidelines express our strong commitment to diversity and our expectation that our matters will be staffed with diverse attorneys. But we now go beyond that statement of our commitment by using metrics to regularly monitor the diversity of the teams and the partners that are working on our cases. We are trying to focus on the accountability that metrics provide, so we use them to prompt dialogue with the firms – praising those that are doing well and developing proactive plans with those that need to increase the diversity of the lawyers who are working on NBCUniversal matters.

We track the diversity of the outside counsel who are working on our matters every six months, not only in terms of hours but also in terms of spend. We want to make sure that firms are not only staffing our matters with diverse junior lawyers, but also providing meaningful opportunities on our matters for more senior diverse lawyers, in an effort to better position them for partnership. Tracking in this way helps to encourage not only the firms themselves, but also our senior in-house lawyers – we need to understand how we are doing in order to take responsibility for the diversity of our outside counsel. It’s a double layer of accountability. Monitoring through metrics also helps avoid any troubling trends and ensures that our diversity commitments have an impact, both internally and externally. It’s very easy to express a commitment but, without careful observation, commitments run the risk of not resulting in meaningful change.

We also encourage diverse outside counsel to provide CLEs for our team, as a way for them to meet the senior lawyers on the NBCUniversal legal team who are making hiring decisions. It’s often difficult for diverse lawyers at firms to get that foot in the door, so this is just one step to encourage additional exposure.

I think most law firms have the best intentions when it comes to diversity and they generally do a good job attracting diverse classes of summer associates and new lawyers. That is not translating to more diversity at senior ranks and in partnerships, however. I think the problem is a lack of mindfulness and realizing that extra effort and attention is needed to make sure that diverse talent is getting the opportunities that will lead to promotion. Law firms need to identify their talented mid-tier diverse associates and put thoughtful effort behind their development. It’s not enough simply to bring them into the building – you have to focus on making sure that they continue to develop and advance.

As a woman of color myself, I think it is also important to recognize that women of color face unique challenges in the workplace and need particular focus. If you think about women of color as simply ‘people of color’ or ‘women’, you miss some of the unique challenges that they face.

One of our broader corporate initiatives at Comcast is to make sure we are particularly conscious of candidates from the military community. Veterans, for example, often have non-traditional experience that can be very valuable in a corporate setting. We need to think about relevant experience in a much broader way – identifying skills that we need that might be expressed in a less familiar way. Ultimately, this kind of broader thinking will benefit lots of candidates that may have non-traditional backgrounds. We also plan to enhance our outreach and support of lawyers from the LGTBQ community and lawyers with disabilities. We have excellent LGTBQ representation in the legal function at NBCU and continue to evaluate ways to increase our diversity across the board.

I had the benefit of that broader, more flexible thinking – I had no experience in the entertainment industry when I was hired as general counsel of NBCUniversal, but the CEO took a risk on hiring somebody with a different background. That broader thinking gave me an opportunity I wouldn’t otherwise have had, and, in turn, I added a different perspective to the executive ranks at NBCUniversal.