Category: Interviews

I’m going to try to say this as simply as possible: we have more women in the world, and women live longer. We have a group of people living longer without the financial resources to live well. If you consider that women don’t have a way to pursue a profession or financial independence, that economic model is not sustainable.

Of course, I could go to the UN and bring the numbers – ‘We can bring three trillion dollars into the economy if we achieve gender equity.’ But you should think of this in simpler terms: if you want to have people purchasing, living and having financial independence, you need to have everyone in the work environment.

The same arguments apply to people with disabilities, transgender people, LGBTQIA+ people and racially diverse people. We need to have everybody working; we need to have everybody pursuing financial independence. That’s the only way we can have everybody an the same table; everybody with the same resources for housing, health and education. If you take these people out, you’re going to have a huge gap in the future. We need to make it feasible for everybody to be able to work.

Access to education

Today, we have a lot of women in Latin America who are able to get into university to reach the legal profession. However, when you climb the pyramid to pursue higher positions, there is still a gap.

We still have a lot of red and yellow flags regarding children and girls. We have menstrual poverty, we have a lack of education. I think we are doing a good job with established women: we have young lawyers, we have a lot of mentorship, we have done a lot to address the women that are already in the workforce – those who have graduated from law school, graduated from engineering school, for example – and we are organizing a lot to help these women to grow.

But I feel there is a gap in terms of how we are helping all children, all girls, to achieve this step, and to really achieve a high-quality education. In Latin America, you have a lot of women who are able to go to school in the large urban areas. But if you move to the countryside, to the farms, to the less developed cities – oh my god! The girls share their time between housework, family work and also school. They don’t have access to proper places to clean themselves, proper places to study. I think it’s something we need to really think about. We are doing a good job with the women who are able to achieve education but what are we doing for the kids who do not have the same access to education?

Creating the conditions

Rock Content is a Saas Company in digital marketing, and we have this fun start-up environment. There are a lot of young people, and I have to say they have a different view about diversity and inclusion – they see that it is natural.

We have a leader for diversity and inclusion, and we are starting to have a lot of conversations and policies to raise awareness for the company about every aspect of diversity.
We have a lot of allies, to help diverse representatives. One of our goals at this moment is to bring in more people with disabilities.

We have also been thinking a lot about education. We have two main initiatives. One is led by the social impact area of the company, and we give scholarships. The other is that we are about to become a member of ‘Pledge 1%’, an initiative to commit 1% of our equity and employees’ time to educational initiatives.

An incredible journey

Rock Content is a really different environment from much of my career. My click with diversity and inclusion started around 2011 when I first achieved the GC position, and I was the only woman at the table. At that time, I was in the insurance sector, a market where I worked for 12 years, and an environment that, in Brazil, is very masculine and non-diverse.

I said, ‘I don’t want to be the only woman at the table, I don’t want to work in an environment that doesn’t see diversity as part of the strategy.’ So that’s when I started to take some actions and become an advocate for diversity and inclusion. I went to Harvard to attend the Women’s Leadership Forum, and I created a workshop for women in my company. After that, together with two other female GCs in the insurance sector, we created a task force in the Brazilian Insurance Confederation. In 2018, we founded a diversity and inclusion institute for the insurance market in Brazil. So that was the beginning of an incredible journey – we saw a lot of impact from what we started in the market.

Today, if you go to insurance companies in Brazil, all of them have some consideration for, or policy, initiative or target for diversity and inclusion. We see a lot of changes, not only as individual companies, but also as a sector.

Giving opportunities

At Rock Content, I’m a super ally for diversity and inclusion. I’m not only supporting the aspects of it, but also to make it visible, to start to help to drive policies and procedures, to have a diversity and inclusion framework that can also incorporate and embrace the company as a whole. I’ve been working really hard with our leader in diversity and inclusion, and also the head of education and the head of social impact, in order to really make sure that our environment is really inclusive.

One of the initiatives is around people with disabilities, so at this moment we have a lot of lectures and information-sharing regarding that. In September, we had a huge presentation for the whole company to help everyone understand not only the importance of employing people with disabilities, but also how we can embrace this.

We have initiatives like ‘Women Rocks’, ‘Inclusion Matters’. One of the pillars of our business is ‘Rock University’, and we give a lot of lectures, courses and we provide scholarships to low-income families to be able to attend the courses.

Within the legal team, I always pursue people with disabilities, women, and minor representation. I don’t like to say ‘minority’; I like to say ‘minor representation’.

At this moment, I’m hiring, and when they published the vacant position, I asked for somebody with a disability. It’s not only about walking the talk, it’s something that l believe: I need to give opportunity. Our company language is English, it’s our first language globally, even in Brazil. As a legal-compliance department, English is almost crucial. I know that hiring a person within minor representation groups with English knowledge is going to be challenging. But I decided, you know what? Let’s try to find somebody. Even with basic or intermediate English; we are going to develop this individual and provide support to grow as a professional.

A healthy workplace

Motherhood is part of our world, and in every team I have led, I’m always an advocate for parental leave, not only for women but also for men. At Rock Content, it was one of the goals for our CEO and so what we have today is a ‘family’ leave policy. Men and women across the globe have the same amount of leave, so we’re not talking about different policies for men and women. We are talking about four full months for everyone who becomes a mother or father. That’s why we call it family leave. And we give flexible hours too.

Among the other policies that we have established, especially in the current remote-working environment, is ensuring that work breaks will be respected. Lunch hours need to be respected too. No emails at night. These initiatives are crucial for a healthy environment.

In law, our foundational base is human rights – as lawyers, we are trained to observe human rights, and with diversity and inclusion, we are talking about fundamental human rights. It’s the right to have access to employment, to healthcare, education, to have a house. So as lawyers who work in enterprises, we make sure that we are complying with human rights, with labor laws, and make sure that we have equity. As lawyers we really have the tools to make this happen – to create healthy workplaces.

Since speaking to GC, Ana Paula de Almeida Santos has left Rock Content to become general counsel, head of legal and compliance at Argo Insurance in Brazil.

I think we are starting to see some first steps towards real change in terms of greater diversity and inclusion. But there is still a long way to go. Most of these discussions (maybe with the exception of that around gender diversity, which is a conversation that has been going on for a while, with limited progress – the glass ceiling is still very real) are fairly new in the region. So, even though there is some progress, it is still incipient. And it would also be naive to say that there is not some good amount of performative discussions taking place.

However, we have seen a lot of companies and many startups in the region making deliberate efforts to promote diversity. They have launched honest (and, in many cases, successful) initiatives aimed at recruiting diverse teams and fostering inclusive cultures. And that is wonderful. My sense is it is probably easier (and more critical) for younger companies to take diversity seriously from the start. Younger people are typically more aware and vocal about these questions. Also, investors (who are obviously critical pieces in the startup ecosystem) are increasingly concerned about this. So, this is likely to foster more inclusive environments, as everyone’s incentives are aligned.

Tech (and finance) has traditionally been a male-dominated arena and there are structural reasons that make change slow and difficult. In tech, the problem starts at an early age, given prevailing stereotypes (e.g., “boys are better at science than girls”). For instance, the toy offer for girls traditionally has been focused towards nurturing roles, whereas for boys it has typically emphasized Stem abilities and physical activity. What follows is less girls engaging in Stem subjects (especially at an advanced level) and then going into tech-intensive careers. As a consequence, there are few role-models for women within the sector. So, there is a vicious cycle, because there are just less women engineers/developers in the market, which means you have to make a conscious effort to look for these women when recruiting for these roles (which, in our case, is all the time). And then, there are also unconscious biases that we are trying to fight (and to prove incorrect). For instance, though merely anecdotal, we have seen that our women developers and data scientists are more likely to hire other women – who then turn out to perform just as well, if not better, than their male peers.

I am fortunate to be part of a company where we take diversity seriously – and where we are very much aware of the many challenges ahead of us. Our leadership team is very diverse along a lot of dimensions, especially for Latin American standards. And this is not a coincidence.

In terms of specific measures we have taken at Addi, for instance, we have adopted a parental leave that is more generous than what is legally required and that does not discriminate on the basis of gender or gender identity – or on the basis of how a person becomes a parent. What this means is that our parental leave is fundamentally the same for all of the company’s colleagues – and it is mandatory for everyone. So, everyone gets to enjoy the same benefit – and fear the same fear when leaving their job for months. We also make a conscious effort to make sure we have fair compensation bands, so that people get paid on the basis of their role, qualifications, performance, etc., not on their negotiating abilities. As far as the legal team is concerned, I am proud to say that it is fundamentally female and that it works fine. Of course, this is not a policy – I have extended offers to male colleagues. But it does warm my heart to see this as a wonderful experiment of professional sisterhood and women partnering with other women.

Unfortunately (?), there is not a rulebook to follow. However, I can think of the following ideas (which are not necessarily focused in legal):

• Find mentors and advocates and cultivate those relationships (and then be a mentor and advocate for others);
• Build networks (e.g., affinity groups) with your peers and rely on them. Welcome newcomers into these groups and be open to help people coming in – after one month you already know more than someone who is just coming in;
• Try to release yourself from the pressure of having to represent all of your minority group. Do the best you can, and do it for you;
• Find places that actually value integrity, transparency and where you can have direct, open and honest conversations – in reality, not on paper.

Inclusion and diversity are gaining space in the corporate world. But the journey is long and requires not only speed, but resilience and intentionality. In Latin America, it is important to consider that the reality in Brazil is different than Mexico, Chile, Argentina… and even within the same country, it’s not the same. This plurality must be recognized and respected.

Inclusion and diversity, or ‘I&D’ as we call it at GE, is a business imperative. It is no different than other strategic pillars and embedded in ‘how’ we do business. People feeling valued and respected perform better, and this makes it fundamental for corporations. Diversity creates value for our customers, shareholders, and employees, and, at GE, we are committed to fostering an inclusive culture where everyone feels empowered to do their best work because they feel accepted, respected and that they belong.

My role as diversity and inclusion leader has been quite a journey, on which I embarked by putting into practice advice that many of us receive but not always listen to: to accept challenges even if we don’t think we are ready.

I’d been involved with the Women’s Network (WN), one of the employee resource groups (ERGs) we have at GE, for many years. I started my career with GE as an intern and being part of the WN not only allowed me to learn from experienced leaders, but also showed the power of these groups in creating a trusted network of people that help us grow professionally and personally. But when Rafael Palombini, GE Healthcare’s LATAM CEO, invited me to represent GEHC globally as Latin America’s I&D leader back in August 2020, it would be a much bigger responsibility. Although I’ve always been passionate about I&D, I was (and still am) no expert. After a candid conversation with him, where I was encouraged to focus on my willingness to learn as opposed to my limitations, I said yes.

This is a voluntary role on top of my responsibilities as general counsel. It is challenging to find the time, but all the learning, the people that I have met in connection with the I&D routine that I would otherwise not have met, the projects we are delivering and the impact – actual and potential – that the work of this team has, makes it more than worth it!

Together with the company’s senior leadership in LATAM, my role is to ensure that our inclusion and diversity strategy is embedded throughout our business, and to be the spokesperson for GE Healthcare Latin America with respect to I&D with GE Healthcare globally and regionally across the various GE businesses.

2021 has been an intense and rewarding year for I&D. All the GE businesses got together and, with the support of our employee resource groups, a strong I&D plan was developed, focusing on education and awareness, strengthening the leadership commitment and our culture of belonging.

To further the leadership commitment, an inclusion and diversity workshop was tailored to the reality of all GE people leaders in Latin America with the support of a consulting company. Almost 700 people leaders across the company participated in a three-hour interactive session that promoted reflection on empathy, unconscious biases, and how they are linked with GE’s Leadership Behaviors (act with humility, lead with transparency, and deliver with focus). We are pleased with the results, with an 80%+ approval rating from the participants.

In the talent pillar, leaders are encouraged to think of inclusive job descriptions – for example, is fluent English really a requirement? Why limit applications to people graduated from universities A or B?

One last example of our actions this year is the first GE census in Brazil. A self-declaratory anonymous survey was conducted to understand the diversity of the GE team regarding race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, disabilities, and other characteristics, to help guide the next steps in the company’s journey of inclusion and diversity. The level of engagement made us all really proud. More than 70% of the Brazil team participated in this important activity, carried out thanks to the support of many people but, in particular, the AAF (African American Forum) Brazil, one of our affinity groups.

For the legal profession, on top of everything, I&D is part of our jobs. There is a strong component that intersects with labor and employment, data privacy, compliance. The potential legal impacts of I&D-related matters are relevant, so it is naturally part of the legal professionals’ routine. Here with GE in Latin America, the legal and compliance team goes much further than their ‘legal hats’, actively engaging in various initiatives and being strong allies and advocates for inclusion and diversity.

I&D is really part of our job in the legal team. And, at GE, we are fortunate to have various legal and compliance team members not only engaged in connection with their day-to-day work (the Brazil census, for example, required a lot of support from the legal team as one of our main concerns was to make sure that all data privacy requirements were complied with), but as advocates, volunteers and allies, leading or actively engaged with employee resource groups, I&D initiatives, and promoting a culture of belonging across the whole company.

It is part of the job of any legal or compliance professional to look after the company’s culture and reputation. We need people need to raise their voices when they see something of concern… our job is to ensure that the environment allows for that. I once heard that behavior is driven by conviction, convenience or compliance… so I see that legal and compliance professionals have a lot to add, whether bringing technical legal insights or going beyond, as our team at GE does.

GE believes a commitment to equality, diversity, and inclusion is a key element in achieving the best legal representation by partnering with those who appreciate and include a diversity of perspectives, and who can bring more creative and innovative thinking to GE’s challenges. Outside counsel shall work actively in promoting equality, diversity and inclusion within all levels of their workplace, to make a diligent effort in the recruitment, retention, training and development, career progression and promotion of diverse lawyers and to afford such lawyers an opportunity to work on GE matters.

During the last few years, awareness of diversity and inclusion has gained relevance in the business world, and organizations that promote gender equity and diversity are more positively accepted by society. In Latin America, we have been advancing that line and there is an evident increase in the participation and the commitment of chief executives regarding these topics.
We have made great progress in diversity and inclusion in the region.

We still have much to do – for example, there is a low percentage of organizations led by women, technical areas have a small participation of female talent, and I think what is very evident in the region is a gender-based salary gap.

Colombia has a high percentage of women in leadership positions, and we have space in the corporate world as well as in consultancy and the commercial world. I think Colombian women have gained very important space in business life.

Promoting diversity and encouraging an inclusive leadership style does not only follow social justice principles but it also brings important advantages for businesses, and I think it is viewed in that way in Colombia. It is the principle that guides corporations and opportunities here in the country.

Tone from the top

At Telefónica Colombia, diversity management is a key element of our global strategy. We believe that promoting diversity in our teams and encouraging an inclusive leadership style brings important advantages for the growth of the company and for the wellbeing of the employees. It allows us to attract and retain the best talent, boosts innovation and come closer to a diverse and changing society. That’s why our company is committed to the equity of opportunities and the undiscriminating inclusion of our people. I think that has gained terrain, not only in Telefónica Colombia, but also in the majority of the big organizations in the country, and as organizations act that way, it is an example for society and for the rest of the organizations – it is cultural, to give opportunities and to open the space.

We have a strategy for diversity and inclusion at Telefónica that is divided into five dimensions. One is gender, the other is new generations, the LGBTQIA+ community, disabled people and multicultural interaction.

So for example, in gender equity we have a transparent and unbiased recruitment and selection process; internal and external communications, with memos promoting inclusive language; actions to increase the participation of women in traditionally masculine areas, like the technical areas and, to some extent, the financial area as well; and actions promoting balance between work and personal life.

In the dimension of new generations, we have actions to promote job talent, and we recognize outstanding employees under 35 years of age.

We generate a safe work environment for members of the LGBTQIA+ community, for example by offering extensive benefits, like wedding time, mourning time and parental leave, among others. We have a communications campaign regarding respect and inclusion, and participation in Pride Connection to share and to learn good practices.

We promote the inclusion of people affected by different disabilities as employees and we are trying to attend to the needs of these people as well. We have 32 accessible service centres in the national territory providing specialized attention for people with disabilities, a special attention protocol for people with visual and auditory disabilities, and we have accessible mobile devices.

In the multicultural interaction area, we promote inclusion of people from different ethnic sectors and countries.

Thinking big

As a legal team, we follow the general principles of the organization. As a leader, I actively participate in the local diversity council, and I have had the opportunity to participate in the organization’s female leadership program.

The diversity council is a council in which we establish actions with respect to diversity and inclusion strategy. We establish actions and we follow those actions to meet our objectives with respect to the different dimensions of our diversity and inclusion plan.

In the female leadership program, we empower women. It is a formal program with different speakers, it has a regular space weekly, and there is a graduation ceremony for a selected group of women every year that participate. We share the experience of different women in the organization who have grown and show the women that there is a huge landscape and space, and what they have to do is dare to be part of the recruitment process for different opportunities that we might have, not only locally but regionally. It’s a way to push them to think big, to think that we are capable and there’s no limit.

In the legal area, we consider diversity to be an advantage that boosts our work team. We believe that diversity and differences promote empathy and innovation, generate value in the business and have a positive impact on our resources. At the top of the legal team, we have very good female representation – I’m a woman and I’m the leader of the legal team, but all my direct reports in Colombia are also women. In the region, eight out of eight general counsels are women. So, we are aware of the importance of giving space to women in these positions, of empowering women, and making women visibile in the company, participating in the most important business projects.

Building influence through business partnership

I think lawyers, and everybody, can be potential agents for diversity, and it is the responsibility of everybody to do so.

As lawyers, we have to work hard in order to be close to the business, because we want to be involved at all stages of the business cycle – we want to be business partners, and not just ‘a stage’. That gives us opportunity, visibility, and experience – we gain space, and we gain relevance and importance for the business. Also, lawyers must be open-minded, and not think only about the legal issues, but mix our legal knowledge with business knowledge, which is great for the growth and professional career of the lawyers. We are working to be more flexible, especially in terms of digitalisation tools, because to be one step ahead, you have to have the agility, versatility and the digital knowledge that nowadays is required to be on the cutting-edge.

When I joined Sodexo 11 years ago, diversity and inclusion was part of the DNA of the company even then, but not in the same way that we work now. Ten years ago, these topics weren’t part of the board of directors or the leaders of the company. Nowadays, I think it’s not acceptable if a company doesn’t take the time to discuss these topics at board level. It’s not about one specific sector or business – the market in Peru needs to talk about diversity and inclusion.

At Sodexo, we started setting D&I KPIs in 2015 – I remember the first time I asked for the number of women in the company, and we had 25%. We started working. We developed our local diversity and inclusion policy because we had a worldwide one, but we wanted to work on this topic in Peru. After six years of working and understanding the real problems of D&I, we have reached 40% women in the company. If I told you that we had improved the number of women from one year to another that’s easy – you just hire more women and that’s it. But if we see this change over six years, it’s because the culture has changed. It’s a statement by the company about how we want to be seen and how the talent sees us from the outside, especially considering we work a lot with the mining sector in Peru, where the average number of women in mining is very low, around 6%.

People need to be included; it’s not only about diversity. Peru is one of the most diverse countries in the world and that doesn’t make us necessarily inclusive. I think this is part of our challenge. It’s not enough to say, ‘I respect and hire people regardless of age, sexual orientation, gender or whatever’. It’s about taking action, making a commitment and changing the policies in order to guarantee the conditions that we are offering to our people.

Part of our commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion is to promote and foster a culture of equal opportunities, to provide inclusive workplaces everywhere we operate. It’s part of our strategy, it’s part of our core business. So, we have created policies about diversity and inclusion, and we have adjusted our policies to be fair and to guarantee that everyone, regardless of gender, orientation, disabilities, religion, whatever, all have the same rights and can hold any position in the company. Because sometimes you don’t say it, and when you don’t say it, people don’t believe it, or don’t think that it’s possible.

In 2018, Sodexo Group launched a gender balance study with McKinsey, as one of their business cases about gender equality. We share that report with our clients and providers and invite all our stakeholders to work with us and make some activism around gender equality.

According to Peruvian statistics, seven out of ten women have suffered physical or psychological violence. It’s all around. So we said, ok, we are 40% women, but we have 60% men, so we have an opportunity to talk about gender violence, not only for women – because women along can’t make the change – but also in men. We started talking about the importance of shared roles in the house, and to try to reduce or eliminate all the unconscious bias regarding, for example, positions ‘for’ women or man, like HR for women, IT for men.

We started using blank résumés in hiring, in which the user has only the information that is needed to take a decision about the position, with no name, gender, age or photo. Because, for example, if someone is hiring for a maintenance professional, the supervisor might think of 35-year-old man, and if they are presented with a 40-year-old woman, they might think they don’t fit the position. We have seen the effect of this, how people started hiring people that they did not expect: ‘Oh, I didn’t know that they were a woman!’ or ‘I didn’t know that he was a man!’ In that moment, you know you really have hired talent and not what your unconscious bias is telling you. We also started empowering women, showing success stories of women in positions that were traditionally thought of as ‘for men’, for example successful women engineers.

In Spanish, we have a lot of words that are gender-based, for example, ‘profesor’ and ‘profesora’, which is the same word for different genders. I’m a lawyer, and when I see a job advertisement that says ‘avogado’, I assume that I can apply. But if a man saw an advertisement for an ‘avogada’, they are not going to apply. So we developed an inclusive guide for language, and that way we avoid talking only to the 50% of the population that are men. We distributed the guide to all our people, so now we talk inclusively, to all genders.

We created unconscious bias workshops for people involved in HR and talent attraction, because if the people on the front line receiving a résumé have something against women or are uncomfortable with people of a certain region or whatever, they are not going to pass the résumé on to the company. So, we work a lot with people selecting talent to talk about unconscious bias to help us to have a better process for all people.

In the legal department, we review all the policies. For example, we know that our policies regarding salary sit within a framework, a scale or a band. But do the policies talk about pregnancy, for example? Because I can be in the correct band where there are no differences between women and men and the bonus is the same for each gender. But what happens if I go on maternity leave, and I don’t have the opportunity to complete the time period I need to obtain my bonus? It’s not written. And if it’s not written, it depends on the manager. As a legal team, our mission is to protect and to write those things down, because when the policy is not clear, that’s when the difference starts. We include those topics in our policies and in our communications, to raise awareness throughout the company.

In terms of D&I (and also ethics), people don’t expect companies just to comply with the law. That’s basic. People expect you to go further. You have law, you have regulation, it’s obvious that you can’t go against those, but we can improve, especially in countries in Latin America that are very far away from how things should be. So, for us, it’s important to give more attention to D&I in order to improve equality for our people. I can’t say, ‘There are no LGBT rights here in Peru so I do nothing for that community in my company.’ It’s not right. And that’s the power we have as private sector companies. We don’t want to go against the policy, but we can do better. We can’t go against the law, but we can definitely do better. I think we have a commitment with our people, with our stakeholders, and also with our society.

As a legal department, we work with the supply chain department on how we can set minimum requirements for some D&I aspects so that even small entrepreneurs can be part of our provider program – because we cannot ask the same conditions for a big, big company to a small one. 40% of our suppliers are small entrepreneurs, and 40% of those are led by women. So that’s also a way to drive and foster a D&I culture with our stakeholders.

Legal has also implemented a compliance program, and we have a hotline to report any situation that could be considered a failure in our D&I program. We listen to all reports, and we have an ethics committee that resolves them according to our policies. We also give training sessions about sexual harassment law to all our employees. We include clauses regarding human rights and diversity and inclusion in our contracts with our clients and our providers as part of our commitment to D&I with our stakeholders.

As a legal department, we search for the real equity inside the company. We are the guardians of all the policies, and how to make them live, so when we review them and align them with the diversity and inclusion program, we are making changes in the company. It’s easy to talk about diversity and inclusion but have policies that are not aligned with our speech and how we work. But we can guarantee that all the things we state are part of our conduct and ethics code. It’s important because it’s the governance, the institutionality that we need to include in our companies, because if it’s not written, if it’s not in a document approved by the company, it’s just something we said and that’s it. I think we guarantee that diversity and inclusion is not only spread among all our employees, but also can be respected as part of the DNA of the company.

Diversity and inclusion is near and dear to me, because I am part of the LGBTQIA+ community. I didn’t come out of the closet because I was never in there, and although I was very private in the early years of my career, I never tried to be someone that I wasn’t.

However, in the traditional financial markets, I felt a lot of anxiety for many, many years. I felt that because of my sexual orientation there was a limit to my success, to how far I could go in the corporate structure, because I couldn’t see anyone in senior leadership positions that I could relate to, no one was out in that particular industry in Brazil. I used to hear minor aggressions almost every day, jokes that I thought I had to live with. Although I put a lot of effort into my career and working was such an important pillar of my life, I believed for many years that my personal situation was a ‘ceiling’.

Part of a movement

In 2012, I went to work at HSBC. It was my first leadership position; I was hired there to lead a team of 12 people and be responsible for the legal advice for many parts of the business. And there I started to see that maybe those limits or those restrictions were more in my mind than out there. I started to see a movement of people being themselves about their sexual orientation, people being able to introduce their partners in social events, and even getting educated about how the bank in the UK dealt with this internally. I started to think that maybe it could be a good thing, I could even be part of a movement and talk about an experience that, for me, was very difficult before.

I was still very private at that point; I didn’t talk about my personal life at all at work. But I felt that people welcomed that, maybe people didn’t care, which was great. And the structure of the organization even gave people incentives to get involved in ERG groups, affinity groups, the Pride group, and so on.

In 2015, I started to be very involved in D&I groups and discussions in Latin America, where it’s much more challenging than in the UK, Europe or the US. I realized I could use my voice from my place of professional success to tell others that they should feel safe. At least, in that organization, I felt that this was true. I lived in Argentina for a couple of years, and there I was the first executive sponsor of a Pride group who was also a member of the group. We launched the Pride Committee in Argentina – a country that is open from the legal side, much more open than Brazil, but society is not necessarily the same.

An OUTstanding leader

Because of that work, I decided to join panels to talk about it and, in 2017, I was the first Latin American named in the Financial Times list of 100 OUTstanding LGBT leaders and allies. This came as a huge responsibility for me because I was the first Latin American there. Today, we have others, which makes me very glad. I didn’t know it, but I think that was the validation I needed as a person: to really believe that I deserved to be where I was, separate from my personal situation, because sometimes I felt that I didn’t – that I didn’t fit. Because every time I was with my peers, I didn’t have stories to talk about children, the more traditional family type of talk, I always felt left out.

Since then, I have realized that the aspects of D&I I have had exposure to are very limited. Although I am a gay man, I am white, I am cis and I come from a family that gave me all the opportunities for success – to go to the best schools, to learn English, to live abroad. So I refreshed the way I am working in relation to D&I. Two or three years ago, I started to get educated about racial justice, something that I’m very committed to get educated about in a system that is purely made for the success of white people.

Now I’m putting myself in the humble position of getting educated about how I can get exposure to diversity in my country that is very different from my reality. I’m not diminishing whatever challenges I had to face, but I’ve just realized that I cannot stop here, that I need to go much further as a leader – correct some injustices, broaden the access of opportunities in law schools and in our legal departments to people that have never had them before.

In terms of my personal experience, I had this first wave, where I could say ‘Ok, I’m here’. But I felt I needed to be that role model – a gay guy who speaks many languages, who has travelled the world, etc. The financial industry likes gay people, but they like those role models that look perfect, which I am not! And also it’s from a static point of view – you can be out, but you do not be an activist.

The importance of being yourself

At Nubank, I think I have achieved the true opportunity to be myself. Since feeling more able to be open about my personal life, I feel happier. I think that’s the easiest way to put it. I feel lighter. I feel that I don’t need to hide the type of music that I like, the type of films that I watch, the places that I go. I feel I don’t need to hide that I’m a sensitive person, that I cry sometimes. I feel that I can make comments with my team that I make with my friends, that I had to hide at work previously. And I think I am getting closer to people in my team and in other teams.

I was able to be a very good performer before, but at a cost – anxiety, even moments of depression, many times. I think the main thing about being able to be open is in terms of mental health and happiness. I don’t talk often about my personal life because I’m still private. But I’m me. I don’t feel ashamed anymore whenever it’s appropriate to talk about those things. So, it’s fresh working at Nubank in this sense.

Setting the agenda

At Nubank, I think that the agenda is very genuine. The teams are growing diverse, and we have very ambitious goals to increase this diversity over time. I have worked in US companies, British companies and Brazilian companies before, but there has been nothing really like the diversity we have in Nubank. The dedication of the senior leadership and the amazing D&I professionals from different backgrounds are really inspiring.

We have been involved in many initiatives that aim to promote entrepreneurship from the black communities. There is an investment program called Semente Preta (‘Black Seed’) funding start-ups that are being created and led by black professionals. We have invested funds in many of those start-ups that we will continue to follow, give mentorship to and ensure they have the right opportunities to grow their new businesses.

Salvador is the capital of Bahia, one of the states in Brazil which has a large black community. It’s very important in the landscape of Brazil, so we have opened a lab there focusing on those communities to foster innovation, and we also have ‘Nubankers’ working from there.

Mobilising the legal community

As a legal team at Nubank, we are working with legal teams in other companies to join efforts to foster social and racial diversity in the legal community. Nubank has given us the platform to go out there and say: we need to unite ourselves for broader actions and initiatives in terms of racial justice and diversity in the legal community.

I think there’s a huge potential for the legal community to be more diverse, and because a legal team within a company is not the core business, our teams are not that large, we have fewer opportunities outside the context of the business.

But, internally, we can help with our knowledge to be sure that we have the right policies in place, we support other areas to ensure that whatever decision we make is not discriminatory in terms of clients, and that any language that we use in our marketing is also adequate. So I think we do have the knowledge to help with D&I initiatives. Every single initiative coming from both the D&I and the ESG teams is supported by us in legal, and we have to ensure that we comply with the laws and best practices. Especially when you start sponsoring projects, you have agreements, you have many legislations that you have to comply with. And Nubank is so dedicated to it that just in being part of this huge community, you are involved in D&I discussions every day.

There are many arguments for diversity and inclusion in corporations. From an HR perspective, you want to attract and retain the best staff. From a marketing standpoint, it’s more creative if you have people from different backgrounds – the proposals, the brand, the advertisements will be much more interesting. From a commercial standpoint, if you have a team that is diverse, clients will see themselves in you, so you create this relatability between clients and the people that form your company. From a legal perspective, you need to treat everyone equally; you need to have a very strong culture in terms of respect.

All of this makes sense. We have many reports available showing that diverse companies are more sustainable, long-term profits, results, etc. But, for me, it’s because it’s the right thing to do. If your goal is to see a society that is more equal, more just, fairer, why not start doing it with your own company? Because, doing that, I think you will inspire people who perhaps never thought about diversity, multiplying and inspiring others outside the company. If you want to have a company that leaves a legacy in society, and perhaps influences society, that has the same goals as you would like to see, that’s where you can do it.

Making waves

At Zoetis, we have an internal Colleague Resource Group (CRG) called WAVES – Women Achieving Vision, Excellence and Success. I am a board member of this group, and the idea is to empower women inside the company for leadership positions and create awareness of women and our roles. We have a female CEO, a female general counsel, and I was promoted as chief counsel recently, but, generally speaking, there are still some regions, especially in Latin America, where we could do more. So, our mission is to increase representation of women at the director level and above to 40% by 2025. How will we be able to achieve this with a CRG? If we help each other, empower each other, and also with a mentoring program.

I’m a mentor inside Zoetis and outside as well. I really like to mentor women, because in general, what I see is lack of confidence about our talent. In Brazil, and in Latin America as well, since we are born, we learn that men are strong, men are capable of doing more. And then we grow up with this bias: they are better than me.

I do pro bono mentoring every Wednesday night for young women up until the age of 26. Most of them suffer from lack of confidence; because society is created in such a way that they don’t believe in themselves. That happened with me in my career – I know that, on certain occasions, when a bigger position was offered, the first reaction I had was: am I good enough for this position? But if the position was offered, of course I was.

So that’s why it is important for women to support other women, so that we create more confidence among ourselves, and we speak up. One of the things that I notice a lot is that women often don’t speak up. We don’t ask for a salary increase. We think: I’m going to leave, I’m going to be on maternity leave, I’m so afraid. No. This is your right.

I am part of a Brazil-based diversity and inclusion group at Zoetis, and one of the things that I think about is that, ‘ok, we are all diverse, but how do we include that diversity on a day-to-day basis?’

Sharing stories

For example, if we launch online training, sometimes I have the feeling that people join the training just to check the box – but they don’t think about what it really means. So, what I like is the storytelling approach.

For instance, in our D&I group, there was a person who was legally registered as a girl at birth, but did not recognize this gender, discovering himself to be a trans man. From the beginning, he raised a hand and said my name is a ‘she’, but I recognize myself as a ‘he’. Last week, I got very emotional because I saw his new birth certificate with the gender changed, and I know that this is a victory. I worked on the legal side to change all the labor paperwork, and I was so emotional, so happy, because I know the story, I know everything that he went through.

He shared his story so the entire company knows a little bit of what he faced during this journey inside Zoetis. This is what diversity and inclusion is.

I also sit on the Global Council for Diversity and Inclusion in the company, which is a group of people from different countries, and the idea is to talk about D&I inside Zoetis. We created CRGs. We are launching online training to the entire company. We created the ‘macro’ road map, and now we are starting to work on different fronts.

Of course, there are lots of things to do, but I’m very happy to work in a company that is taking diversity and inclusion very seriously and creating awareness and discussion about such important topics. It’s not just a box to check. And the thing is that if we create an environment where people feel safe, secure and comfortable enough that they can be what they want to be, people will share new ideas. At the end of the day, we will bring more value to the shareholders. This is so simple. But we never talked about this in the way that we are talking today, ten years ago.

Diversity and inclusion is in the CEO’s agenda, so each department has a goal, or something, with regard to D&I. So when you cascade down, it goes to business leaders, and it goes to legal as well.

Opening up to talent

In legal, when we talk about talent, D&I is something that we take into consideration. Most of the time, when I see an open position for a lawyer in Brazil, I see that fluent English is mandatory, fluent Spanish is mandatory and you must have a degree from a certain university. We need to change that.

Because if I have an open position, and I say we need somebody from something similar to an Ivy League university, or someone with English and Spanish, who would I be interviewing? Just white people. If I put all this as mandatory during the hiring process, I could not take into consideration a lot of good and diverse talent. So, if I have an open position, the university doesn’t matter. As long as they are competent, I don’t care. I don’t care if they have fluency in English, in Spanish, or whatever, this is something that they can learn during the journey. I need to take into consideration that people will only have money to pay for English classes after they have a salary and can invest their money on that kind of thing. If I am so restricted during the hiring process, I would not bring diverse talent into my organization.

Lawyers in skirts

I am a member of Jurídico de Saias (‘Lawyers in Skirts’). The main purpose of this group is that we help each other, we exchange ideas (considering confidentiality) between ourselves, and we support each other. It started very small and it’s bigger now. As part of that, we created a mentoring program: I am a mentor of another (what we call) ‘skirt’ – another in-house lady – and the idea is to support and help the other lawyer to grow inside her company.

We also have a live, monthly event for subscribers on Instagram, where we talk about a subject, for example, leadership or compliance. On one occasion, I interviewed another lawyer who was an expert on a particular topic.

Through Jurídico de Saias, I began to learn the concept of helping other women, and then I started to replicate this during my pro bono mentoring sessions and in my mentoring program at Zoetis. And that’s the main purpose – because if I learn something during my process, it is great if I can share those learnings with another woman.

Being an influencer

At the end of the day, an in-house lawyer is a business partner and, by being a business partner, we play an important role. I not only advise on legal aspects but also on general aspects. And legal has an important seat at the table: we have the ability to influence the leaders, to influence the organization. Everybody listens to us, we add value, and we should take advantage of that and talk about diversity and inclusion and include that in the agenda.

Being a business partner, I can advise the team to not sign a certain contract, for example, or to do certain things for the company. I can say, oh why don’t we invest this in marketing and also how is the hiring process? How many women do we have in leadership positions in the country? The beauty of being the in-house lawyer is that we can influence the entire organization.

The legal profession presents some challenges and opportunities for diversity and inclusion, since we have a special purpose: to attain justice and societal peace for the world. Maybe this is very idealistic, but in a world where conflict is commonplace, we need a lawyer profile. The corporate lawyer should be concerned about having a more diverse and inclusive organization, to understand their clients.

Capturing the zeitgeist

When I engaged in the private practice of law 20 years ago, nobody would talk about diversity and inclusion. We didn’t have maternity leave, we didn’t have a home office so you would have to stay very late in the law firm, and being a workaholic was the rule. 20 years later, things have changed. A new sense of societal demands for women and LGBTQIA+ communities has been captured within the legal profession, and now it is more concerned about diversity and inclusion in general, making the lawyers happier people, and we now have, for example, maternity leave for parents, and a soft landing after having your baby.

However, in 2016, there was a report issued by Women in the Profession (WIP) Peru, a group I am part of, about the proportion of partners in law firms by gender. I was very shocked with the results – we didn’t have parity in the partnerships of law firms; maybe 30% maximum were women.

Aside from the legal profession in law firms and in-house teams, we have academic panels, where until maybe 2017 or 2016, we had all male panels on academic legal topics. It’s something
that is changing – some companies and legal in-house teams have stated to set aspirational quotas of at least 30% women in panels.

Agents of change

I’m very engaged on diversity and inclusion topics – I really want to be, both as an individual and together with all the people around me with the same goals, to be an agent of change in society. I am a member of WIP, and Women CEO, a corporate organization that has a main goal of least 30% of women on boards by 2025. Unfortunately, even public companies that report to the market on their independent directors and so on have a great gap in terms women occupying the C-suite and leadership roles. I think the legal profession is a key profession for diversity, since they are legal and counsel to the whole company on these matters.

When it comes to my team, we are about 85% women. We get together every other day, and I try to have a special one-to-one meeting with each one at least once a month, about whatever makes them worry at the office or at their homes, just to hear their needs. I’m conscious that every person is different and sometimes they do not like to talk en masse. So, I have a very direct relationship with every member of my team.

In the pension fund industry, we participate as shareholders in meetings and committees for different investments that we are in. When we appoint directors, we try to make sure that at least one woman is included by the headhunters. When we look ourselves for directors to represent the pension funds through our in-house research, we like to always make sure that at least one woman is considered in the final group of three that is to be voted on.

I’m part of the inclusion committee at Scotia Bank. It’s one of the oldest diversity and inclusion committees in the financial sector in Peru and has been operating for more than ten years. It has a member that represents each of the different affiliates of Scotia Bank in Peru, and we try to hear the voice of every company, every member of the committee, and then try to issue similar standards and policies on gender and equality in the metrics, events, and workshops that we have.

In Scotia Bank, we have a culture of welcoming everyone. This is not limited to women, this is also extended to different ideologies, experiences, profiles, perspectives, and sexual options. And that diversity has proved to be one of our best assets because, during the pandemic, there was a lack of trust of the government, to the private sector, specifically the financial sector and pension funds, and so this has made us resilient with our clients, they will stick with the relationship because they feel comfortable, and that the corporation has empathy for them.

Pillars of inclusion

In the inclusion committee, we focus on three different pillars: gender equality, disability and the LGBT community. So these are the three pillars that support our different policies. Our strategy on diversity and inclusion fosters a culture of respect, of valuing all the differences and giving equal worth to equal talent. We recognize that we are all different biologically and physiologically, but, in terms of work and salary and opportunities, there should be no difference. That made us issue some policies on wage, salaries and to have equitable compensation packages.

In terms of the selection of staff, we try to do it very fairly in terms of diversity and inclusion. For example, when you apply for a job at Scotia Bank, you won’t have a chart to mark whether you are a woman or man, we only focus on what really matters – if you’re experienced, whether you have values that fit with ours. In our panels for the selection of staff, we have at least one woman and we have always a woman candidate or LGBT candidate as well in the selection (if they voluntarily mention what their sexual preference is).

We have inclusive communication – we have an inclusive language manual that helps us to address the different internal communications in a way that is open and diverse for everyone. We won’t say, ‘Hi there, women’, or ‘Hi there, men’, we would say, ‘Hi there, team’ – very slight words that we use to avoid discrimination and making people uncomfortable.

Check the X-ray

We also track the different initiatives that we have, because whatever you have on paper, you have to measure to make sure it is working. So we have an X-ray report on the different metrics that we use: for example, the number of women versus men that are scaling the corporate ladder, the number of women that have access to promotions. We conduct annual research where we ask people to tell us if they want to become an ally, or how they feel about the fact that Scotia Bank is focused on the LGBT community, if they really want to support the LGBT community. So we have a database of people who will really help us in closed groups to foster the initiatives targeting the LGBT community. Year by year, the percentage of people supportive of the LGBT community is increasing more than 20%.

We have a mandatory quota on disabled people. You can always accuse yourself, saying ‘Notwithstanding the fact that I have looked for disabled people to fit this job description, I haven’t found anyone.’ But we try to do our best, and include people with different types of disability, for example, auditory, visually or physically disabled people. That’s something we are very proud of. We’re still working on accessibility. I don’t think there are a lot of companies here in Peru that have special products for disabled people. But, for example, in Scotia Bank we have an app that reads the different functionalities aloud in Spanish, so you don’t have to actually read the app to make a transaction with the bank.

We have different programs to empower women, to break the glass ceiling, such as leadership skills, networking, and different models that you can engage in. They’re all virtual.

Those are some of the things that we’re working on, across the large spectrum of work we have done for diversity and inclusion.