About

What are the most important transactions and litigations that you have been involved in during the last two years?

Of note in recent times for me personally is my key involvement in the establishment of the Queensland Container Recovery Scheme and leading the legal workstream on the sale of the iconic SPC Ardmona fruit preservation business based in Shepparton, Victoria. This transaction saw Amatil divest a much-loved part of its portfolio after a rigorous auction process and an administratively complicated transition to separate the businesses. Leading the legal workstream on Amatil’s investment in the MADE Group of companies (which saw the first co-investment made with our brand partner, The Coca-Cola Company) was also a particularly proud moment for me!

What “legal tech” products do you currently utilise, and do you foresee implementing more of these in the near future?

Our team is constantly on the look-out for new ideas and better ways of working – we have to be! We currently use Xakia as a matter management tool and NetDocs as a document management system, but most notably and rather excitingly, we’ve recently welcomed a new virtual team member, known throughout Amatil as AVA. AVA is our virtual “grad” who can answer basic legal questions commonly asked by the business and, as chat-bots do, she’s getting smarter by the day!

Have any new laws, regulations or judicial decisions greatly impacted your company’s business or your legal practice?

Ensuring the in-house team has its finger on the pulse in a world where laws are frequently changing is certainly a challenging task. Recent amendments to whistleblower protection laws, privacy and data protection and the introduction of modern slavery laws are just some examples of change that our in-house team has needed to get across to make sure our organisation is up to speed and our business colleagues understand the implications on their day-to-day. As an ASX company, we also regularly scrutinise our practices and procedures to ensure they reflect best practice, even outside of those times when changes to law are made. Our in-house team is relentless in challenging ourselves to consistently meet or exceed the expectations of regulators, the market and our shareholders.

What do you feel are the most effective techniques for getting the most out of external counsel, in terms of how to instruct them?

Firstly, I don’t believe it’s fair of us to expect our law firms to provide commercially savvy and practical advice if they don’t understand the business and how decisions are made in the organisation. And by that I don’t mean, “I understand you make and distribute beverages”. Their understanding needs to go much deeper than that and it’s important and necessary to invest time in helping them really get it so they can appreciate the key issues, risks and the things that matter most.

This needs to be a two-way street though, and your external lawyers should be equally as keen to make this investment of time in you. If the objective is for your external firm to effectively be an extension of your in-house team (so they can provide relevant and timely advice), then, in a similar way to upskilling the in-house team, take your external lawyers to your sites and introduce them to your business counterparts. Secondees are another fantastic way of helping external firms gain insight into how the business operates and the commercial drivers affecting decision-making.

Secondly, set the expectations early and be clear on what you want. If five pages of advice doesn’t suit your needs, tell them that and give them “permission” to provide a “yes” or “no” type answer. Sometimes, letting them know that all you need is a quick steer in the right direction and that their full advice can come later, or not at all, can really help!

Thirdly, be open and transparent and expect this to be mutual – so seek feedback. Are there things the in-house team could be doing better or that would better equip your external lawyers to provide more practical advice?

If you had to give advice to an aspiring in-house lawyer or general counsel what would it be and why?

There’s so much I’d love to say here! However, there are three key things any in-house lawyer should do as a base line: one, be open to all experiences; two, build your wolf pack; and three, join an association like the ACC.

With a private practice past, I was used to lawyers specialising in a particular subject area and striving to become an expert in that. In-house is such a different environment though, and I now appreciate it’s critical in our world to be able to tackle any issue thrown our way. To best equip us for this, be open to as many different experiences along the journey of your career – especially ones that push you outside your comfort zone, force you to be flexible when you least expect it and embrace those experiences that are a bit scary.

Pay attention to your network and work on having a group of people you trust to bounce ideas off. Building this network takes time so don’t stress if you only have one or two people in your posse right now, but I do believe there’s lots of value in growing your pack over time. I would also encourage finding a mentor (or two!). It doesn’t need to be a formal arrangement and can simply involve a coffee every now and then with someone you admire, trust and respect. Undoubtedly there’ll come a time when you’ll need advice and it helps to be able to lean on someone whose relationship you value. And pay it forward! Be on the look-out for opportunities where you might be able to help someone else in a similar way.

Lastly, join an industry group or association like the Association of Corporate Counsel. They can be a huge source of information, tips and insights and are a fantastic way to tap into a wonderfully talented group of people facing similar circumstances to you – not to mention an effective way of finding those people to add to your network!