Patrick Hornby – GC Powerlist
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Australia 2019

Patrick Hornby

Manager legal and governance | Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB)

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Australia 2019

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Patrick Hornby

Manager legal and governance | Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB)

Patrick Hornby - Australia 2018

Manager – legal and governance | Australian Transportation Safety Bureau (ATSB)

ATSB is an independent statutory agency whose purpose is to improve safety and public confidence in Australia’s transport system. When it separated from the Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development...

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What legal and management trends do you see having an impact in your market?

Getting flexible working arrangements right is the key to promoting productivity in teams. I am a dad with a young family. I adopt flexible work practices myself. At least two or three times a week I make sure I am out of the office by 5pm to pick up my kids and be home for dinner and be there for things like swimming practice. Later that night after the kids are in bed, and I have tasted my neighbour’s latest home brew and caught up with my partner, I will log back on and do a bit more work.

I am cognisant that flexible working arrangements don’t mean the same thing for everyone in my team because their personal circumstances are all different. For some it might be finding the opportunity to study, for others to play sport or volunteer. It’s a matter of having a conversation about what’s important to the individual and seeing how their work and personal life can flow together for everyone’s benefit.

To make it all work though it is important to have a discipline around expectations. It is one thing to make a commitment to flexible working arrangement but if you are going to do it you need to have a really strong commitment to outcomes. Being able to say, “sure, you don’t need to be here all the time but let’s agree when and how you are going to get that contract completed and those documents filed on time”. There needs to be accountability.

Have any new laws, regulations or judicial decisions greatly impacted your company’s business or your legal practice?

The High Court’s decision in Work Health and Safety Authority v Outback Ballooning Pty Ltd [2019] HCA 2 is significant for the potential uncertainty it creates around the role of Work Health and Safety Authorities in aviation safety matters.

The question arose as to whether the Authority had any jurisdiction on account of the subject matter being within the field of the Commonwealth regulatory scheme for civil aviation, namely the Civil Aviation (CA) Act 1988, regulations and orders. The High Court found that the CA Act was designed to operate within the framework of Commonwealth, State and Territory laws, including the Northern Territory Work Health and Safety Act. The CA Act did not contain any ‘implicit negative proposition that it is to be the only law with respect to the safety of persons who might be affected by operations associated with aircraft, including the embarkation of passengers.’

The impact of the High Court’s decision is yet to be seen. Up until now the jurisdiction of Work Health and Safety (WHS) Authorities in aviation matters has been unclear. The industry has to be prepared going forward for the potential for WHS authorities to become involved in aviation accidents and incidents in parallel with the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau. Other modes of transport are used to the involvement of WHS authorities with legislation often specifically deferring to the WHS regime. This has not been the case in aviation.

What do you feel are the most effective techniques for getting the most out of external counsel, in terms of how to instruct them?

Be clear about expectations. It should be no different from any other contractual arrangement where you are paying someone for work. You need to articulate the role for external counsel in the matter and how you will judge the outcomes. Make sure you have regular conversations about how things are progressing so that you can hold them to account if you don’t believe they are doing what you have asked them to do.

I always make sure I buy the coffees while I am working on a matter with external counsel and then the drinks afterwards. From my perspective this sets it up so I am indebted to them for their work but nothing else. Plus it’s nice to be the one showing your appreciation by offering to shout.

Focus on… Humour

There is a line we all know that “laughter is the best medicine”. Doctors and pharmaceutical companies have kind of played that one down. They don’t get a commission for pushing Billy Connelly or Amy Schumer!

Cynical about the medical profession? Maybe, but it’s more about looking for the joke in the way that doctors and pharmaceutical companies are perceived to behave. Just like the general public do with their perception about lawyers: How do you get a group of lawyers to smile for a picture? Just say “fees”! *boom* *tish*

As lawyers it’s far better to be in on the joke and laugh at ourselves. I am still shocked when I read alarming statistics about lawyers having higher rates of depressive symptoms compared to other professions. “Finding the funny” in what we do might not be a cure, but it can’t do any harm, other than to the egos of those who need to hang on to some misconceived idea of the elitism of the profession.

Look for the absurdity in what we do so that it doesn’t seem so serious all the time. Some of us still wear gowns and wigs and call each other “my learned friend”. As if we actually think the opposing counsel is in anyway learned! Laughter makes an apparently threatening situation seem okay.

You might be surprised to find that humour also helps you to be a better lawyer. There is huge crossover between the legal and comedian professions. Rebel Wilson, Shaun Micallef, Craig Ruecassel, Jane Turner, James O’Loghlin, Anh Doh, Libbi Gorr, Steve Vizard, Charlie Pickering and Corinne Grant are all examples of Australian comedians with law degrees. Comedians and lawyers are really just playing with words. To “find the funny” you need to look at a situation from every possible angle. The same to find the best point to make a client’s case. Structure and timing is important to both to be able to work out when it’s best to reveal certain information for maximum impact. Don’t give away your final offer too early, or the punchline!

Trying out a little bit of stand-up comedy can also help make talking in front of people a little less terrifying. Having the expectation of closing a multi-million dollar deal or getting someone off a murder charge is nothing compared to having the expectation of making a couple of dozen drunk people in a pub laugh. Do that just once and you will think you are invincible.

“Finding the funny” is great for lawyers on so many levels. A sense of humour should be a requirement for admission.

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Patrick Hornby

Manager – legal and governance

Australian Transportation Safety Bureau (ATSB)

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