Interview with: Keith J. Murray, Partner

Keith Murray has been at Mathews Dinsdale Clark since 2012 and is the Managing Partner of the Vancouver office. Keith is recognised as the best in class for workplace law issues in Western Canada and is often called upon to aid clients with challenging labour-related matters.

Keith is a member of the British Columbia, Alberta and Ontario Law Societies. Having provided employers for over two decades, clients faced with union organising drives often turn to Keith for his experience and strategic insight in assisting employers in this area.

Mathews Dinsdale Clark LLP is Canada’s only national labour and employment law firm, having been the first law firm to devote its entire practice to this area over sixty years ago. Mathews Dinsdale Clark is the only labour and employment law firm to have offices from coast to coast and highly skilled lawyers who are qualified to practice in every Canadian province.

 

What do you see as the main points that differentiate Mathews, Dinsdale & Clark LLP from your competitors?

 Our geographic reach is unparalleled in the market, providing our clients with unrivalled local knowledge. The practice of labour and employment law is often about connections, the local market and those relationships within. Competitors who are based in a single location, most frequently in Ontario, will be a more expensive option for the clients in Alberta or British Columbia, and they do not possess the local expertise or relationships with the arbitrators, labour boards or counsel on the other side which Mathew Dinsdale Clark boasts. Our ability to serve clients is unique and gives our clients an advantage in every jurisdiction we operate in.

Our depth of expertise – because of the size of MDC, we possess a host of lawyers who are regarded as top labour and employment lawyers in Canada. Our competitors are often trying to do a little bit of everything, but due to our talent resources, we are better equipped for situations as such. Within our practice, there are several sub-specialities such as occupational health and safety and construction, and we have lawyers who are experts within these niche markets who can provide their unmatched expertise.

 

Which practices do you see growing in the next 12 months? What are the drivers behind that?

We’re certainly seeing growth across traditional labour relations in terms of unions certifying businesses that were previously non-union. In Canada, there’s been a continuing shift to the left in labour legislation, making it easier for unions to become certified in workplaces, and in parallel, we’re seeing a heightened commitment and tenacity among unions and their members. People are upset because inflation was high for a couple of years. Despite it starting to finally fall now, there’s a feeling among a large proportion of Canadian workers that they’ve been being left behind, so to speak, and in turn, they are seeking representation to get their ‘fair share’ from their respective companies.

We help firms who would rather have a direct relationship with their employees rather than go through a union, being proactive with employers in terms of training and guidance, and avoiding third-party representation. We are also seeing an increase in applications for certification of a union applying to be certified with the employer, and with this comes a lot of litigation, which we are well equipped for.

For employers that are already unionised, we routinely represent them in collective bargaining with the unions. We are often seen at the bargaining table as the spokesperson for the employer, and it’s fair to say that in the last few years, bargaining has become a lot more challenging for employers as expectations among unions and their members have become significant.

 

What’s the main change you’ve made in the firm that will benefit clients?

Our continued geographic growth and ability to attract top-flight lawyers from other firms are why we’re continually adding to the depth of our talent. We’ve been very fortunate regarding the calibre of people we’ve had join Mathews Dinsdale Clark, and this is a credit to the growth strategies we have put in place over the last few years, which has ultimately benefited our clients.

 

Is technology changing the way you interact with your clients, and the services you can provide them?

 At this point, I would say not significantly for us. Certainly, we’re watching what is happening out there in the market, but I would say AI or other technologies as such have not significantly impacted how we practise.  Over time, it will probably change the nature of the work we do, and some clients may look for answers from an alternative source or have contracts created by these new technologies.

I recently had an encounter with a client who had compared my advice to what he had received from a technological source, and we had opposing views. Fortuitously I was correct, and I believe this illustrates that these technologies have a long way to go yet, particularly in the legal field.

In terms of how we service clients, it has not had a significant effect within Labour and Employment Law, but it’s certainly not to say that it won’t in the future. We have seen significant change in terms of our meetings with clients, particularly for Litigation and Arbitration hearings being carried out virtually. The obvious benefit of this is the cost; however, I still personally reside with the view that in-person meetings within our field are better suited for in-person meetings – we work in a relationship-based business, so fundamentally, these human aspects will remain despite the tides of times.

 

Can you give us a practical example of how you have helped a client to add value to their business?

 One of the things we’re doing more and more for clients is helping them focus on labour productivity, where they are unionised, focusing very much on labour productivity and the bargaining of collective agreements so rather than just dealing with your problems as they arise, we are helping clients determine how they improve their labour productivity which ultimately reduces their costs.

Depending on the business, wage rates and benefit costs are always important. However,  what can really hurt a client or a business is an unproductive collective agreement or workforce because of restrictions. focus on wage rates and benefits, but there are a lot of other contributing factors in a collective agreement that layer on all sorts of costs to a client, numbers of holidays, break times, the work-life structure, etc. Therefore, one of our focuses is helping clients structure the workplace in a way that promotes productivity and, on the non-union side, having policies in place that establish positive relationships that result in an efficient workforce.

 

Are clients looking for stability and strategic direction from their law firms – where do you see the firm in three years’ time?

 Absolutely, there are a lot of lawyers who can, you know, tell you what the law but there are a lot fewer lawyers who can tell you how to apply it in a practical way or in the real world. A significant part of what we do is provide strategic advice to clients, and that’s why our depth of experience and expertise is helpful to clients. Whatever issue or problem they’re dealing with, whether it be the first or second time they’ve faced it, we’ve got people who have dealt with said problems numerous times and have built a reputable foundation off their experience.

Part of our job is knowing something about the clients’ business because, of course, you can provide much better strategic advice if you have some understanding and their relationship with the union, etc., because the same problem doesn’t always generate the same advice, we’re not in the cookie cutter business, it depends on the presence of a union on the union as well as a whole host of other factors.

Our clients want to be able to focus on their business rather than fighting with the union or dealing with internal matters, so it is vital that we can provide them with stability and strategic direction.

We’re very happy with the progress we have made in the last decade at Mathews Dinsdale Clark, we’ve achieved our key growth strategies and are in a great position within our market. One of our focuses at Mathews Dinsdale Clark is succession planning, ensuring we’re building a strong group of lawyers behind the people who are running the firm or leading practices currently.

We will continue to develop our junior and intermediate-level lawyers to take over the practices of the more senior lawyers eventually. There are lawyers in the market that we believe have good practices and are good people. Culture remains a key foundation of everything we have achieved, and it will remain at the forefront of everything we do.

It’s reasonable to assume that our footprint will have grown in three years, but at the same time, we will never grow for the sake of growing; it must be measured and strategic. We will continue to monitor the talent market and the ever-changing technological front facing us in the industry.